pretty sad

[denim 5,000+ posts]

Sickening isn't it?

So glad we bailed them out.

 

[DonH 5,000+ posts]

Sundown is still not considered a mainstream company, kicker has been around for quite some time. l7's are most likely made overseas. to reduce the amount of screw ups im sure the individual who designed the motor kept in mind tolerances for screwing up thus giving it a larger gap... easier to shim up and drop in a larger gap.

and oh yeah, jacob built the sa-8 to be a beast of an 8 as LOTS of people have a boner for 8" woofers.

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

Okay... so comparing an SA-8 to the VVX-8 is just silly... the only parts in common with any version of the SA-8 ever produced :
1) Triple joint ring

2) Frame Spacer

3) Terminals

4) Frame

Those are literally the ONLY parts in common.

Honestly... if you are unable to tell the SA-8 apart from a VVX-8 I would suggest not trying to compare the internals of amplifiers which are much more easily confused.

Stock boards absolutely do exist for amps at the Korean build houses (as I mentioned earlier) -- even on stock boards SOME tweaking can take place. The SAZ-1500D v.1 had three revisions and gained a few hundred watts along the way and was based on a "stock" board design... then the v.2 departed to an entirely new board designed around our spec -- aimed at reducing the footprint of the amplifier. I am currently working on a v.3 as well which is entirely different than either.

There are quite a few amp companies that are happy to sell the stock product and sometimes even in a stock casing -- and for the most part the stock product is good so it's not a huge problem -- but there are also those of us that prefer to have our own stuff... and understand enough about it to create a superior product based on what happens to products in the field. Will they still resemble the "stock" stuff ? Sure -- to a certain extent... no need to fix aspects that are not broken and create other issues. As 99% of forum goers are not really savvy on the design they will quickly group two amps as "the same" even if they aren't.

so why is my basket on my Sa-8 that is stock from you all the same as the skar basket? I will admit the motor.. I couldn't remember whether it was the same it was not.. but the surround, cone look similar as well.. but my basket is identical.. please explain.. I can take a picture if you don't believe me.. robin(Iam3pimp) can verify as I unpacked them in front of him.. all 4 of them..

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

side note I laugh at all the MADE IN AMERICA truck hillbillys that think their pos ford or chevy was made here.. hell my Japanese truck was atleast 100% manufactured here haha!!

 

[VWBobby 10+ year member]

Buying an amp used from someone online (not saying you are but in general) does not constitute supporting American assembled products. It supports the guy selling the amp. Keep that in mind those of you who are so into the "American Products only" idea, thinking you are actually helping car audio out.

Can you point me to the facility in the US in which the components for the boards were created? I bet it's safe to assume the small components are still made in a foreign manufacturing plant and shipped here to be assembled.

I was not aware that MMats was actually made in the USA. Good to know!

http://mmatsproaudio.com/home/our-factory/

"Made in the USA" does not mean that every Component of an assembly is actually manufactured in the USA. It just means that the majority of the components are made in the USA and assembly is performed here. The heatsink, printing and etching of the circuit board, etc. can all be made in the USA.

Some components do not benefit from being made here. For instance, Japan and Germany both make some of the best semiconductors in the industry. That being said, there are a lot of high quality manufactures in the USA.

Some components like capacitors are better sourced outside of the USA. It is well known that Phoenix Gold had some trouble with some of their capacitors, and should be replaced on most of their vintage amps. There are some high quality Japanese caps that will last 20 years without any signs of failure and only cost a few cents more than the Chinese counterpart.

Some people would be willing to pay $300-600 for an amp that will last a long/lifetime compared to one that costs $250 and is worth $125 a couple years down the road. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Even some of the amps in the $1000-2500 range would sell for some people. There are lots of vintage amps that are considered the Holy Grail to collectors and hold their resale value 10+ years later.

 

[dbeez 5,000+ posts]

so why is my basket on my Sa-8 that is stock from you all the same as the skar basket? I will admit the motor.. I couldn't remember whether it was the same it was not.. but the surround, cone look similar as well.. but my basket is identical.. please explain.. I can take a picture if you don't believe me.. robin(Iam3pimp) can verify as I unpacked them in front of him.. all 4 of them..

No offense but did you not even read what he wrote the basket is the same.

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

No offense but did you not even read what he wrote the basket is the same.

he put frame.. I was not sure if he was talking about the basket or not..

 

[dbeez 5,000+ posts]

Yeah he did but not much else that could be.

 

[KyleBechtold 5,000+ posts]

Yeah he did but not much else that could be.

I suppose.. just never heard a basket called a frame.. I still say they look the same minus the motor though.. the basket and surround/cone combo make em look similar.. although I heard the performance of the skar is subpar..

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

I saw and moderately optioned Suburban at the Baltimore AutoShow with a price tag of $69,700. I wanted to punch the nearest Chevy rep for insulting every person that walked in the convention center.

How about mid 60's for a SRT-8 Gand Cherokee?

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

so why is my basket on my Sa-8 that is stock from you all the same as the skar basket? I will admit the motor.. I couldn't remember whether it was the same it was not.. but the surround, cone look similar as well.. but my basket is identical.. please explain.. I can take a picture if you don't believe me.. robin(Iam3pimp) can verify as I unpacked them in front of him.. all 4 of them..

Why don't you just post a picture instead of always saying that you can.

 

[brodeisel 10+ year member]

because he is trolling us

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

^^ Exactly!!! Have a regular line for these teenagers, made in Korea. Make a good ol' made in the USA amp for us old geezers that can afford some quality in our lives. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif kidding about the geezer comment....lol

Sadly most American manufacturing these days you're not really even paying for quality. You're paying for oppressive taxes, regulations, insurance mandates, etc. imposed on the small business. (ie. 50 million stiffs that are being paid by the state to not work and sit on their arse and catch a check, and probalby 10 million amulance chasing lawyers that push up insurance costs for all).

High quality audio still exists if you look around.

With all the talk about motor strength, let me throw something in here.
Anyone find any motor more powerful than a solo x 18? Let me know when you've tested one. Since the X 18 is no longer the loudest sub in the world, it would go without saying that motor force is indeed not everything.

Somehow I doubt Solo X is that strong. It has a rather large gap IIRC. Motor force isn't everything, you also have mechanical resistance (mass and mechanical dampeners) that impact efficiency. DD-z is proven to be very efficient, I would add to the top of the list DC LV6, Shocker Sig (particularly small gap and neo versions). 4hp/TRF variants (depending on coils and other parts used). IMO all things being equal 3" coil beats 4" coil simply for the lower mms. (would like to see link to said test though....would be a good read I'm sure)

I would trust MMATS before I trust Atomic on that claim.

Ditto. I can't immagine Atomic went from buying Zenon boards to ramping up manufacturing facility to build their own amps from the ground up. I'm pretty sure their speakers are made in USA, I doubt their amps are.

until I can see pictures or even in personsubs from certain companies

amps from more that don't look exactly the same minus minor changes I will go with snoop on this.. I saw a skar 8 the other day and literally LOLed.. the EXACT same as a Sa-8 minus sundown used gloss paint on their baskets..

I don't know how many amps that are the same.. rd audiopide sundown DC etc etc some barely go out of their way to change em past the stock look..

not saying all of all of your products are identical those are just examples..

Motor and coil will likely be the dominant factor in performance anyway (I should add manufacturing technique and glues used will make or break mechanical reliability).

I agree with most of the industry in "why re-invent the wheel". Standard basket types work very well and don't require a lot of proprietary tooling to build up or build parts for. Ditto with cones and spiders. The ones we have work really well and there's enough variety in existance that you can build a sub to do whatever you like with varietys that are already made.

Tweaks to a motor's design (even small ones) and the design of the coil are what will be important....primarily just the motor. When you're dealing with this sort of woofer the magnetic force is really the biggest variable.

no need to fix aspects that are not broken and create other issues.

Which begs the question.... Why no more 4500D? By all accounts the most reliable amp that size on the market. Even Steve Mantz said he tested one and was impressed (and I've never heard him say a good word about an amp rated over 2KW before...generally he calls the designers "monkeys")

.... just saying.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

Kicker doesn't even have full specs on their older l5 06,08 models. I had to call them yesterday to get more information about them. The specs seem more off than most.

 

[TheUnderFighter 10+ year member]

I suppose.. just never heard a basket called a frame.. I still say they look the same minus the motor though.. the basket and surround/cone combo make em look similar.. although I heard the performance of the skar is subpar..

My god bro, would you just give it up? Exterior appearance does not equal internal performance! The surround looks the same?! Really? So.... it's round and rubber? In that case, my SA sub also looks a lot like my condom, they're probably based on the same design.

The cone? Skars are concave, SA's have a dust-cap. And..... they make noise. That's where the similarities end. Best subs are designed with different goals in mind, and will perform differently from one-another.