Preplanning stage - need help deciding on which direction to go

[BCotrell]

OK guys, been doing more planning and researching and this is what I plan on doing:

Replace HU with Pioneer MVH-1400NEX, replace front door speakers with Audiofrog GS62's and power with my Sony Xplod amp for now (80wx2 RMS), use my ported box for this vehicle, subs I am undecided, amp for subs will probably be Skar SKV2-1500.1D, wiring will be 1/0 from batter to trunk- distribution block with 8ga going to speaker amp and 4 ga going to Skar amp, sound deaden the doors and probably the trunk, run all 1/0 big 3 wiring but keep stock 130amp alternator.

My next vehicle will most likely be a new Tahoe. So I plan to take most of this with me. I will use the AFs in the rear doors in the Tahoe, the subs and Skar amp will come along. I will probably get a 4 channel amp for Tahoe to run all of the speakers and get 6x9 AFs for the fronts. I may or may not take the headunit with me when I make the move. Depends on what the Tahoe has I guess.

So I am undecided about the subs and need your input. As I stated I listed to mostly rock and 80's with some rap mixed in. I want a very clear, crisp, good sounding system where I can definitely feel and hear the base but not tearing my car apart. I am having a hard time deciding between SSA Demon 10's, Sundown EV3 10's or Sundown SA 10's.

I am leaning towards the Demon's because that's 1100w so my amp gives me plenty of head room. I think I can remain on the stock alternator with either those or the EV3's. The SA-10's I feel may be more for people looking for some pretty intense bass and not sure if I can run these on my stock alternator. I've never had subs over like 300 RMS so I don't know really know what to expect from any of these.

Comments on my planned system and any input on the subs?

That skar amp is an overpriced current hog. Get a md1800. Your TL is newer so it runs a bit more factory electronics which means you’re not going to have more than 80amps or so on deck to dedicate to your stereo. That old Sony 2 channel will eat into that too.

sa10’s will give you flexibility of taking a bit more power if you have it.

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

SunDowns are low efficiency

 

[BCotrell]

Don’t blow your load on equipment. Something like Two tnt’s will take as much power as your factory alt can produce.

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Thinking ahead, 2 10’s in ur Tahoe won’t be the same as in your tl so consider a taramps smart 3 on one 1k-1500 rms d4 12, then you can get another 12 when you get your Tahoe

 

[Motorhead87]

BContrell, I was kind of ruling Taramps out because when I watched the duno ratings for the MD1800 it was coming up with ~65% efficiency and that sounds like a power hog to me. The Smart 3 shows much better with up to >90% in 2 ohms I think it was.

I was debating 10’s vs 12’s and won’t a properly built ported box for two 12’s just be massive? When I have the Tahoe I am not going to want to keep the back bench down 24/7 to accommodate a massive box. I was debating on two 10’s vs one 12 and felt like the added surface area of the two 10’s would make that the better option.Also is running a 3k amp to a speaker that’s rated for 1500w going to damage the sub at all? Sorry if that is an ignorant question.

Also can you give me some advice on what to look for in order to grade an amp and subs efficiency against other amps and subs? For Amps I pay attention to the efficiency rating and total amps at a given ohm spec on dyno videos. Is that a decent way to look at it?
For subs I go based on sensitivity rating although I know there is more to it but all of that data is still confusing to me on just how to process that and make sense of it all.

 

[BCotrell]

Keep in mind that md1800 put out nearly 1000 watts more than it was rated at 2 ohm so it’s efficiency was rated at power potential not the power like you’ll need.

Clean signal, box rise, and available amperage available will impact the final power your subs see. With a 3k you’ll be able to keep your gains quite conservative. As for the move to the Tahoe, my mistake, I just assumed you would want bigger bass when you moved to the Tahoe (as so many bass heads do). I actually have two 1k rms 10’s in my Landcruiser and its plenty of bass for me but some times I think about What if. I actually traded a guy two brand new 12’s for his two 10’s same models worried about the space thing similar to you.

a solid 10 is going to take 1.5-2.0 cubes per sub so figure out the space you’re willing to give up and go for it. Might want to proactively find the measurement of the distance between the backseat of the Yukon and the rear hatch and use that as your enclosure max depth otherwise you’ll be paying for a second custom enclosure when you swap cars. Might have to anyways just due to size constraints of the TL trunk and ability to adjust the other two dimensions.

 

[Motorhead87]

you have me thinking hard about that now. I’m strongly considering going with the Taramps smart 3 powering a single GB12. Ported box size is only 1.5 cuft and the dimensions would fit nicely in the TL and I’m sure a box for 2 would fit in the Tahoe.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Bcotrell, thanks for the suggestions. I didn’t think of going with a cheaper double din but you are right it makes sense to just go that route instead. I was worried about keeping steering wheel functions and Bluetooth calling but I see adapters for that.

me not keeping the car well into the future aside. A year is a long time and I have gone several without any subs at all. I really want some subs back in the car and since I will be taking them with me regardless I want to buy quality, good sounding ones. Can I get some feedback on my suggestions and the 2 10’s vs 1 12? I’m going to get front speakers regardless and use my amp and if my next car has the same size I’ll take them with me. If not I don’t mind being out $350 for those and leaving them behind.

id say you are going about this the wrong way. HEAD UNIT FIRST ALWAYS FIRST. Then add a sub, then amp the stock speakers, you'd be surprised at how different your whole system sounds at this point. Stock head units are literally beyond garbage. You arent gonna get any good results when all you are doing is amplifying a garbage signal, all you are gonna get is louder garbage. Your stock speakers would surprise you with a quality signal, proper audio tuning features, crossovers etc.. and ample power. Only then if you want more, you'd want to replace the speakers.

EDIT oh **** a lot transpired NEVERMIND

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

BContrell, I was kind of ruling Taramps out because when I watched the duno ratings for the MD1800 it was coming up with ~65% efficiency and that sounds like a power hog to me. The Smart 3 shows much better with up to >90% in 2 ohms I think it was.

I was debating 10’s vs 12’s and won’t a properly built ported box for two 12’s just be massive? When I have the Tahoe I am not going to want to keep the back bench down 24/7 to accommodate a massive box. I was debating on two 10’s vs one 12 and felt like the added surface area of the two 10’s would make that the better option.Also is running a 3k amp to a speaker that’s rated for 1500w going to damage the sub at all? Sorry if that is an ignorant question.

Also can you give me some advice on what to look for in order to grade an amp and subs efficiency against other amps and subs? For Amps I pay attention to the efficiency rating and total amps at a given ohm spec on dyno videos. Is that a decent way to look at it?
For subs I go based on sensitivity rating although I know there is more to it but all of that data is still confusing to me on just how to process that and make sense of it all.

the taramps is a current hog if pushed to the max, if you only use 70% of its capabilities, you'll be in the 90 percentile easy.

 

[Motorhead87]

Hey Jeff,

Yeah my plan has changed a good amount since the start. I want SQ and I want clarity. I had my last garbage setup for 15yrs and I plan on the main components of this build to follow me for another 15+ years. I want quality components that are going to sound great and give me a good amount of thump. I was skeptical about going with 12s due to space they eat up. 1.5, 2.5, 3 cuft mean nothing to me visually. It’s hard to visualize the amount of space that is required for something like this. Seeing the recommended ported box size for the GB12s on AFs website was a relief to see. Much smaller than I was thinking it might be.One is totally doable and in the TL and I think 2 is in the Tahoe. I can’t find a bad thing about Audiofrogs on the web except their price of course. If their sound quality in the right box is everything I read it is, then that sounds like the speakers/subs for me. I’ll build a custom ported box per the AF recommendation for both vehicles to maximize my SQ.

I think based on my listening style and music choice I will wire my sub to 4 ohms to maximize the efficiency of the amp and really put the lowest strain on my alternator as possible. In the Tahoe I’ll probably just get a bigger alternator right off the bat and be done with it. But for the TL I’d like not to. Especially since this one in it is a brand new alternator since stock one died on me. My Sony is an A/B amp that will put out 160w at 4 ohms so that’s 12 amps. It’s 60% efficient so that makes usage at 20 amps. The Taramps would be outputting 1936 w at 4 ohms @ 91% efficiency so that’s 157 amps. Total system is 177 amps. Car audio fabricators estimated that average users use about 25% of total system amps while very heavy base users may run 50%. Total amps for 25% is 44 and only 88 at 50%.

I think I fall in average user column. 44-50 of the 130 total amps from alternator I think is totally doable.

 

[BCotrell]

you have me thinking hard about that now. I’m strongly considering going with the Taramps smart 3 powering a single GB12. Ported box size is only 1.5 cuft and the dimensions would fit nicely in the TL and I’m sure a box for 2 would fit in the Tahoe.

Never bad to have a little headroom, that taramps 3k is a good value. You lost me at a single $599 audiofrog woofer. I’d rather spl oriented woofers (2 at that for that price) and have some money left in my pocket for all the small and not so small things that end up costing you additional money during install. That 500 watt woofer is going to be 40% of your stated budget. Maybe dual 10” ssa gcon’s?

 

[Motorhead87]

Will you all double check my thought process here and make sure I am thinking of this right? I plan on getting (1) Audiofrog GB12 sub for now and possibly adding another later on in the Tahoe. Really trying hard to find an amp that works for this entire timeline that isn't a crazy power hog.

Here are my thoughts. I will get the GB12D2 since it is a dual voice coil it can be wired to 1 or 4 ohms. I'm looking at the Pioneer GM-DX971 amp which puts out 500w @ 4 ohms and 1200 @ 1ohm. I can run the single sub for now and wire to 4 ohms and have 500w to it, then when I get a second I can wire them both to 1 ohm and have 1200w for them. I've been reading a lot about Ohms law and trying to wrap my head around this. There are so many variables to consider that it starts to get overwhelming (wiring in series vs parallel, effects of dual voice coils, etc). With this amp assuming an 80% efficiency I am lookin at barely anything for amps being pulled from alternator for now.

 

[Motorhead87]

For those that care I thought I would give you a little update on how things have turned out. I went to one of 2 local authorized dealers for AF to listen to their speakers in person before I settled on going with that speaker. The dealer I went to I really liked so I thought what the heck I'll have him give me a full quote to purchase all equipment through him and do the install just to see how it compared with my costs. My equipment costs on Crutchfield were $1700 without any wiring included. He came back and said he could source all my equipment I wanted and do the install for $1625 which included all wiring so I jumped on that.

The install went pretty smoothly and I checked out their wiring and cables they used and was happy with the quality. They put distribution blocks in the trunk for the power and ground wires like I requested as well. They finished up just after closing time so I made my way to a parking lot across the street to check it all out before I went back home. I know for many of you SPL guys this system wouldn't turn a head but for me this single 12 bumps. I made my own ported box per the AF specs which they used for me. I was also incredibly impressed with the output from these speakers. I can blast any type of music louder than I ever have before with incredible clarity and distortion free sound. I also did the big 3 upgrade myself that weekend.

Once I was halfway home I started noticing the word "pair" flashing in my info display of my car where it shows your real-time MPG, etc. I wasn't happy with that and did some research to find out that I should have unpaired my phone from the factory stereo before I removed it. That never crossed my mind to even do. I also noticed that when I would turn the sound all the way down you could hear white noise still coming from the speakers. Kind of like a record player before or after a song plays where its blank space. Also when you would completely turn the HU off you would get a buzzing come through the speakers. I texted my install guy and gave him a list of the issues I was having. He told me to bring it back next time I was available which I did and he addressed all issues. They turned down my gains on the Sony amp going to the speakers to get rid of the white noise and buzzing. They also fixed the pairing issue.

So I was pretty thrilled with the overall results for about 2 weeks and then I noticed my front driver speaker was fading in and out and when it would play it sounded like crap and had a lot of static in the sound. I had never blown a speaker before so I thought this might have been what happened. I looked up how to tell if a speaker has been blown and tested it using a 9V battery and it doesn't appear to be the case. So I texted my install guy again and told him about the issue. I took the car in again and they said the RCAs on my old Sony amp were going out. They recommended I replace the amp. I don't know how to test that but when I got home I would wiggle the RCAs and noticed it would make the speaker cut in and out. So I figured I got my moneys worth out of that amp and bought a Skar SK-M4004D 4x100w amp for the speakers. I installed that myself and was pretty pissed to hear that after that, the driver speaker is still having the same issue. It was totally not playing at first while I sat in the car listening to music. Then I noticed after a few minutes it was at least fading in/out again. Then it started playing consistently for a good 10-15 min. I did notice that when I opened the door fully it would cut back out. If I closed it just a few inches it would play again. So I think maybe the speaker wire connection is loose or the wire jacket is cut somewhere and possibly shorting out sometime? I dont know what else it could be. Any suggestions on things to look for?

So long story short I have an appointment Monday to bring it back to him to consider replacing the speaker and full run of wiring to that door and hopefully fix the problem once and for all. When everything was playing correctly it sounded amazing but its been a frustrating couple of weeks of not having everything working correctly.

 

[audiobaun 5,000+ posts]

Sounds like a loose wiring connection issue by the way described.Depending on how the wiring for the speaker was ran its possible that its kinked and cutting through causing the issue. I run the wiring through the Existing wiring split loom with a little extra wire for a bit more freedom rather than stretched out so to speak. maxed out. without any protection/ exposed speaker wiring that will get Pinched in the door jam. There has been an issue in the past from a speakers wiring connection grounding out on the door frame that created some issues due to me not wanting to do a cut out.