Pictures of some of my work

**** nice install man, and the 8 on the headliner is f*ckin sick! I would have turned it towards the front and had it firing right at the back of my head tho! One behind each front seat lol!
BTW do you know what the big 3 is? None of the installers at the shops in my area know what it is for some reason....

ha ha yeah thats only a term used on the forums - i didn't know what to call it untill i found it on here. I always redo alternaotr wires and battery grounds - its always a help - but the BEST THING TO DO that i always do for big installs is to run BOTH power and GROUND to the back - when you need the power you want the best possible connection - so running a 0 gauge ground next to your 0 gauge positive is somthing I ALWAYS do

 
Has nothing to do with the size of the cone though. Has everything to do with the voicecoil. The Le of the voicecoil sets the frequency at which the high end rolloff occurs. There are 10" and even 18" midranges out there in professional sound applications. With a sufficiently low Le and a sufficently stiff cone (this is only because of cone breakup at higher freqs, flutter) you could have as big a speaker as you wanted that could play full range. An 8" subwoofer (which the 8W7 certainly is) is still a subwoofer. It might be able to serve duty as a low-midbass draver but its Le will keep it from performing well as a true midbass with a smooth midrange transition.

Somewhat true - a voice coil does do what you say - But - the shape and size of the cone does change the force on the voicecoil.

GENERAL RULE - smaller cone = faster movement because of less force

larger cone = slower movement because more force = more power to move the cone = more air movement = more sound output.

 
Has nothing to do with the size of the cone though. Has everything to do with the voicecoil. The Le of the voicecoil sets the frequency at which the high end rolloff occurs. There are 10" and even 18" midranges out there in professional sound applications. With a sufficiently low Le and a sufficently stiff cone (this is only because of cone breakup at higher freqs, flutter) you could have as big a speaker as you wanted that could play full range. An 8" subwoofer (which the 8W7 certainly is) is still a subwoofer. It might be able to serve duty as a low-midbass draver but its Le will keep it from performing well as a true midbass with a smooth midrange transition.
nerd!//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 
the BEST THING TO DO that i always do for big installs is to run BOTH power and GROUND to the back - when you need the power you want the best possible connection - so running a 0 gauge ground next to your 0 gauge positive is somthing I ALWAYS do
is that really necessary when the chassis of a vheicle can serve as a huge ground conductor? i suppose running directly from the ground terminal would be beneficial if there is more resistance in the material manufacturers use to make car chassis' than 16 feet of 0 gauge wiring.. so i guess the question is: what are the cons of using the vehicle chassis as a source of ground?

 
anytime i know that i really need power - i always run both power and ground. The cassis ground in theback is thin metal and if you look at the volume of cassis that the ground is actually touching its normally equal to about a 4 gauge wire - so is it necessary = no do i do it whenever i run 0 gauge = yes

think about how much current can go through a 0 gauge wire as compared to an inch by inch section of car ground - i guess its a trademark that i do in my "cool installs"

i used dual 2/0 for my power and ground in the install of the 5 W7's... = not necessary but bragging rights. Every wire has resistance to it - the more direct the better = shorter thicker more pure = better b/c of a lower resistance

 
Somewhat true - a voice coil does do what you say - But - the shape and size of the cone does change the force on the voicecoil.
GENERAL RULE - smaller cone = faster movement because of less force

larger cone = slower movement because more force = more power to move the cone = more air movement = more sound output.
Force has nothing at all to do with frequency response. It only has to do with efficiency. Smaller drivers are used for higher frequencies because larger drivers will start to resonate and generate high order harmonice distortion as the cone flexes. If you take 2 subs with the same motor assembly (the older RE XXX line is a good example), one a 10 and one a 15 what will be the difference in response on the high end? The 15 will probably exhibit a bit of audible breakup in the upper midbass range and the 10 will exhibit breakup at a slightly higher frequency. In both cases they breakup is a result of cone flex. The actual natural rolloff freq for both drivers will be the same though.

A smaller lighter cone will require less force to move, true. But transient response is not a function of how far the cone moves or how fast it moves. It is only a function of how fast it can change direction. Resistance to change in current direction (current provides the motive force to move a driver and the change in that current is what determines the frequency played) is called inductance. The lower the inductance, the less resistant the voicecoil is to reversals in current flow and the higher a frequency it can play. Driver efficiency is affected by moving mass and the strength of the motor assembly. A strong motor can accelerate a cone more quickly, but all that means is the cone moves farther on each cycle and moves faster as a result. A heavier moving assemlbly will not affect how fast the cone changes direction, only how far it moves on each cycle. Therefore an 8" sub with the same motor as a 12" sub will move farther and accelerate faster than the 12, but they will be able to play the same higher freqs. The difference is just that the 12 won't move as far on each cycle. Large heavy coned drivers don't play higher freqs well becuase they inherently have high inductance voicecoils to move the heavy cone and coil. The inductance causes the high freq rolloff, the cone size and mass only affect efficiency.

If you want the physics equations, I can explain in more detail.

General rules are generally wrong.

 
Force has nothing at all to do with frequency response. It only has to do with efficiency. Smaller drivers are used for higher frequencies because larger drivers will start to resonate and generate high order harmonice distortion as the cone flexes. If you take 2 subs with the same motor assembly (the older RE XXX line is a good example), one a 10 and one a 15 what will be the difference in response on the high end? The 15 will probably exhibit a bit of audible breakup in the upper midbass range and the 10 will exhibit breakup at a slightly higher frequency. In both cases they breakup is a result of cone flex. The actual natural rolloff freq for both drivers will be the same though.
A smaller lighter cone will require less force to move, true. But transient response is not a function of how far the cone moves or how fast it moves. It is only a function of how fast it can change direction. Resistance to change in current direction (current provides the motive force to move a driver and the change in that current is what determines the frequency played) is called inductance. The lower the inductance, the less resistant the voicecoil is to reversals in current flow and the higher a frequency it can play. Driver efficiency is affected by moving mass and the strength of the motor assembly. A strong motor can accelerate a cone more quickly, but all that means is the cone moves farther on each cycle and moves faster as a result. A heavier moving assemlbly will not affect how fast the cone changes direction, only how far it moves on each cycle. Therefore an 8" sub with the same motor as a 12" sub will move farther and accelerate faster than the 12, but they will be able to play the same higher freqs. The difference is just that the 12 won't move as far on each cycle. Large heavy coned drivers don't play higher freqs well becuase they inherently have high inductance voicecoils to move the heavy cone and coil. The inductance causes the high freq rolloff, the cone size and mass only affect efficiency.

If you want the physics equations, I can explain in more detail.

General rules are generally wrong.
That there is knowledge.

 
Has nothing to do with the size of the cone though. Has everything to do with the voicecoil. The Le of the voicecoil sets the frequency at which the high end rolloff occurs. There are 10" and even 18" midranges out there in professional sound applications. With a sufficiently low Le and a sufficently stiff cone (this is only because of cone breakup at higher freqs, flutter) you could have as big a speaker as you wanted that could play full range. An 8" subwoofer (which the 8W7 certainly is) is still a subwoofer. It might be able to serve duty as a low-midbass draver but its Le will keep it from performing well as a true midbass with a smooth midrange transition.
show me an 18" midrange driver i can fit in my front door. exactly. you cant.

sure, they may be out there for pro sound apps, but not for cars. sure its possible. but not effective. thats EXACTLY why they make smaller speakers for SPEAKER applications. they ARE effective. they do what they are supposed to. they play the frequencies they are designed to play. 18" CAR subwoofers (last time i checked we were on CARaudio.com) typically roll off under 200 Hz, 15" around 300 Hz-ish, and it keeps going up...

 
I would just like to know if you can take some pics of the Focal BE speakers!? Because those are the sexiest speakers in the world and I've been dien' to see some real pics of em

-Nick-

By the way amazing job!

 
show me an 18" midrange driver i can fit in my front door. exactly. you cant.sure, they may be out there for pro sound apps, but not for cars. sure its possible. but not effective. thats EXACTLY why they make smaller speakers for SPEAKER applications. they ARE effective. they do what they are supposed to. they play the frequencies they are designed to play. 18" CAR subwoofers (last time i checked we were on CARaudio.com) typically roll off under 200 Hz, 15" around 300 Hz-ish, and it keeps going up...
His point was that larger speakers can't play higher freqs and that is what I disagree with. That doesn't mean that an 18" midrange is practical in a car, and if you think I implied that then you are an idiot.

For the last time, the upper rolloff frequency for a driver is entirely dependant on the Le of the voicecoil. Nothing else comes into play. PERIOD. That doesn't mean that you can use the higher frequencies, but he usability is limited by cone breakup which will create ragged response peaks that are actually above the reference level, far from a rolloff. All the XXX series drivers (the pre '06 ones anyway) shared the same motor assembly and guess what, they had the exact same high end rolloff. Why? Because they all had the same Le coil. Did they have the same usable frequency range? Not necessarily, but only because of cone breakup creating out of band noise and distortion. Last I checked, SUBwoofers were meant to play SUB-bass and not midbass so the rolloff of an 18 is not really an issue. At the same time, an 8 with the same motor is going to have the same rolloff which would still make it unsuitable for midbass applications. You are not going to find a high excursion sub that will do well as a true midbass. You will find midwoofers that will provide good midbass and good midrange extension. These come in all sizes. The Speaker Works Grand National had 12" midranges in it IIRC.

For the final time, driver diameter does not have an effect on the upper frequency range of the driver in question. That is entirely a function of the voicecoil.

F=MA the basic equation of physics. D= 1/2*A*t^2 tells us how far an object will move in a given time with a constant acceleration. I'll don't feel like doing calc right now so the generalized form will work. Given two subs with the same motor, one being an 8 and the other a 12, the differences in the drivers can be reduced to a difference in mass for the moving assembly. The force will be the same for the same power input because the motors are the same. Using the first eq, we see that the lower mass will have the higher acceleration. Now you can plug the acceleration for each driver into the second eq and you will see that for a constant time (.01 sec for a half cycle of a 50hz sine wave) the lighter driver will move farther during the time period. But guess what the time in question is dictated by the frequency being fed to the driver. The smaller driver moves farther and faster regardless of the freq reaching a higher excursion with the same amount of power, but it still plays the same freq.

Now factor in Le. The effect that Le has is to reduce the force as the frequency gets higher. The voicecoil acts as a 1st order lowpass filter. Once the cutoff freq for the filter is reached, the coil begins to act as a variable resistor with the resistance proportional to the frequency. Since current and resistance are inversely proportional current will decrease with frequency increasing. Since current is proportional to force, force will decrease with an increase in frequency. Force is proportional to cone displacement so cone displacement decreases with an increase in frequency. The smaller driver will always move farther than the larger, but since the larger driver doesn't need to move as far to displace the same amount of air as the smaller driver because of a larger cone. If you normalize the response plots of the two drivers, the end result will be they roll off on the top end exactly the same.

Your generalization is worthless. For every 8 you show me that has better high freq response than a particular larger driver, I can show you a large woofer that has better high freq response than some 8s or even some 6s. Driver diameter dictates how much air a speaker moves for a given displacement. Larger drivers make better low frequency drivers because you need to move a lot of air to get good output at low freqencies and it is easy to get a low Fs with a larger driver as a matter of mass. Most dedicated high freq drivers have a small cone because it doesn't take a large coil to move the lighter cone and the smaller coil will have a lower Le and provides a higher rolloff freq on the top. The smaller driver can also be made realtively stiffer and thus less likely to demonstrate cone breakup at higher freqs. Tweeters typically use a dome shaped driver that is edge driven because a dome is the most inherently stiff shape for a given weight and the extremely light weight allows for a tiny coil with an extremely low Le.

 
His point was that larger speakers can't play higher freqs and that is what I disagree with. That doesn't mean that an 18" midrange is practical in a car, and if you think I implied that then you are an idiot.
For the last time, the upper rolloff frequency for a driver is entirely dependant on the Le of the voicecoil. Nothing else comes into play. PERIOD. That doesn't mean that you can use the higher frequencies, but he usability is limited by cone breakup which will create ragged response peaks that are actually above the reference level, far from a rolloff. All the XXX series drivers (the pre '06 ones anyway) shared the same motor assembly and guess what, they had the exact same high end rolloff. Why? Because they all had the same Le coil. Did they have the same usable frequency range? Not necessarily, but only because of cone breakup creating out of band noise and distortion. Last I checked, SUBwoofers were meant to play SUB-bass and not midbass so the rolloff of an 18 is not really an issue. At the same time, an 8 with the same motor is going to have the same rolloff which would still make it unsuitable for midbass applications. You are not going to find a high excursion sub that will do well as a true midbass. You will find midwoofers that will provide good midbass and good midrange extension. These come in all sizes. The Speaker Works Grand National had 12" midranges in it IIRC.

For the final time, driver diameter does not have an effect on the upper frequency range of the driver in question. That is entirely a function of the voicecoil.

F=MA the basic equation of physics. D= 1/2*A*t^2 tells us how far an object will move in a given time with a constant acceleration. I'll don't feel like doing calc right now so the generalized form will work. Given two subs with the same motor, one being an 8 and the other a 12, the differences in the drivers can be reduced to a difference in mass for the moving assembly. The force will be the same for the same power input because the motors are the same. Using the first eq, we see that the lower mass will have the higher acceleration. Now you can plug the acceleration for each driver into the second eq and you will see that for a constant time (.01 sec for a half cycle of a 50hz sine wave) the lighter driver will move farther during the time period. But guess what the time in question is dictated by the frequency being fed to the driver. The smaller driver moves farther and faster regardless of the freq reaching a higher excursion with the same amount of power, but it still plays the same freq.

Now factor in Le. The effect that Le has is to reduce the force as the frequency gets higher. The voicecoil acts as a 1st order lowpass filter. Once the cutoff freq for the filter is reached, the coil begins to act as a variable resistor with the resistance proportional to the frequency. Since current and resistance are inversely proportional current will decrease with frequency increasing. Since current is proportional to force, force will decrease with an increase in frequency. Force is proportional to cone displacement so cone displacement decreases with an increase in frequency. The smaller driver will always move farther than the larger, but since the larger driver doesn't need to move as far to displace the same amount of air as the smaller driver because of a larger cone. If you normalize the response plots of the two drivers, the end result will be they roll off on the top end exactly the same.

Your generalization is worthless. For every 8 you show me that has better high freq response than a particular larger driver, I can show you a large woofer that has better high freq response than some 8s or even some 6s. Driver diameter dictates how much air a speaker moves for a given displacement. Larger drivers make better low frequency drivers because you need to move a lot of air to get good output at low freqencies and it is easy to get a low Fs with a larger driver as a matter of mass. Most dedicated high freq drivers have a small cone because it doesn't take a large coil to move the lighter cone and the smaller coil will have a lower Le and provides a higher rolloff freq on the top. The smaller driver can also be made realtively stiffer and thus less likely to demonstrate cone breakup at higher freqs. Tweeters typically use a dome shaped driver that is edge driven because a dome is the most inherently stiff shape for a given weight and the extremely light weight allows for a tiny coil with an extremely low Le.
listen to this man, he's correct in every aspect.
 
i am just going to say that ngallucci is my best friend and that that truly is his car... i have been in it like a million times and will tell you the history of his stereos.... he used to have 1 jl 12" w7 with a pg tantrum 1200.1(which is now mine) and then he got another w7 to have 2 12" w7. one day he called me and said he wanted to go big, so he ordered 2 more w7's and 1 8" w7, 3x 450/4, 4x 1000/1 and then all 5 batteries, one of which is in my car right now. he did have an alarm it was the top of the line python, im not sure what that model is..... but he was more grateful for his safety and the safety of his family that nothing bad happened except his stereo was stolen. the theives climbed into his gated yard, came right up to the house where his car was and went to town on it. the car was recently sold and he now has a 2003 honda civic with 1 12" w7(out of luck it was recovered by the police b/c a kid at a local high school bought it and the serial numbers matched ngallucci's) and this summer he will be making new doorpanels for his focal utopia set as well as he is buying 2 8" w7's to accompany the 12. that was his stereo, and if you guys are doubting it you are crazy. it was the jl audio featured vehicle for a little as you guys had mentioned. i was there when he laid his first layer of fiberglass on the 8" box by using a balloon to keep its shape. trust me that is his stereo........ he wouldnt spend all this time posting all these pics just to make up stuff......

 
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