One Day Wall... *pics inside*

[newusername 10+ year member]

Here's the original quote:

last time I checked ohm was short for ohmega... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

The funniest part is that not only does he have no idea where the term "Ohm" came from (Immacomputer does), he also implies that he checked and that's the answer he got! lolz.

I don't mean to rag on the guy, but come on...let's be careful about throwing stones in glass houses.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I thought it was short for ohmgwtf just shocked me.

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

Ok we need to close this but I have found a good amount of evidence including an electronic engineer to back what what I said before and even the owner of T3 agrees distortion hurts subs. I am going to be on the safe side and just use clean signal. And I found this article and it is funny cause I honestly had wondered about this. Cause a clipped wave pulls more power but the wave length isn't as long so the cooling of the sub is reduced and I was thinking about it at work tonight and I came home and somebody gave me this article and Honestly it may be correct. it does prove a point. IF the sub moves less in proportion to the power due to the wave shape it has less cooling. Ha ha I can't believe I was thinking about it at work and somebody posted it. AGAIN lets just drop this thread cause you have 50 percent saying correct 50 percent saying no. it is going to be a opinion till we can prove it. I need to get a 800 watt rms amp. and a 500. max out everything on the 500 and test the rms wattage. find a sub that is around 600 watts rms. . match the 800 watt amp to put out the same power as the 500 but in a much cleaner signal and see which blows the sub first

 

[Death By Bass 10+ year member]

Ok we need to close this but I have found a good amount of evidence including an electronic engineer to back what what I said and even the owner of T3 agrees distortion hurts subs.

thats because distortion, clipping, etc does kill subs, you were right in the first place, I have no idea why you decided to change your mind. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

the loss of cooling due to the square wave isn't much of an issue. just because a well known individual thinks it does.... doesn't make them correct. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

want proof? get your 1000w rms sub and a cheap 35w amp from autozone. hook it up to an o-scope and make sure the signal is heavily clipped. let her rip and come back when the subs is cooked

distortion doesn't kill speakers, power does. /thread.

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

Well you are correct just cause somebody well respected agrees doesn't mean 100 percent it is correct. But honestly there is a thread on there talking about it in great detail. and the sub does move considerably less in proportion to the extra wattage caused by clipping thus less cooling. Just like certain boxes greatly reduce thermal power handling due to lack of movement at certain tones so this could do the same thing.

here read these after this should lock thread cause we both have our beliefs

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

http://audioforum.termpro.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/8/26576.html that is some pretty good reading there

No, two identical sub that should blow on 600 watts. same box clamp set both amps to do the same wattage RMS . but the smaller amp with everything cranked wide open including head unit (and measure THIS amp like that with the clamp meter and voltage to get true rms) then set the higher wattage amp to do the same power or within a few watts and see if they blow at the same rate. This isn't meant to be a test between a square wave and a pure clean signal so I don't need a scope. this is a test to see if wattage is the ONLY factor in a voice coil blowing. And this is a test that should do that. if they blow within close times we can count this as possibly little variances in build quality between the two identical speakers. if the fully clipped amp blows it in 10 seconds and the other amp takes 90. then it is pretty obvious the different movement of the cone can cause less cooling

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

I think you are missing the point. In my example, it will never blow. Distortion doesn't kill a speaker. Your wrong.

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

Also, your links prove what we have been saying..... the additional power created by clipping has the potential to over overpower a speaker.

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

btw - it's not a belief, it's a proven fact.

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

Yes I didn't disagree my friend you don't listen do you. I am aware it says that. but is also says for the amount of power applied the clipped power does result in a bit less thermal power handling vs a non clipped wave. I has less excursion with same applied power due to the flat tops of the square wave. And yes I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW clipping causes the amp to produce more power which blows the sub which I agree with. But the orig debate was does distortion per watt hurt the sub and yes it does. if you have a true 700 clipped watts vs a true 700 unclipped watts the unclipped is better due to thermal cooling. I agree if there was NO cooling on the sub and the amperage on the coil was the ONLY factor in this situation I would totally agree with you that it wouldn't matter if it was a square wave 700 watts or a non square 700 . NOW I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT WIRED WATTS TO CLARIFY AGAIN AND AGAIN . I am talking about TRUE RMS watts. But since cooling of a subwoofer especially ones that are designed to utilize a pole piece for cooling . movement of the subwoofer matters for voice cooling. Now it may be small scales but lets say the sub moves 20 percent less per watt applied with a square wave vs a non clipped wave I may lose 10 to 15 percent of its power handling. And one more time not wired watts I realize a 700 watt amp clipped will put out a LOT MORE. and I think that is why this whole thing got started cause people are like a clipped amp puts out MUCH more power and that is why they blow. Which is a reason. But I believe certain factors just like box can lower thermal. So true it would put out a lot more watts but maybe that sub on the 700 watt amp would handle 1100 watts unclipped but the 1100 clipped watts from the 700 watt amp might cause 20 percent less movement and there you go maybe enough to put that coil out of it. Now I will say most likely the extra power from the amp is much more likely to hurt the sub then the actual wave but the way seems to have something to do with it. And again before anybody responds remember that the coil isn't the only factor in the thermal power handling of the sub. And if it were then yes I would probably agree that distortion has NO effect on the thermal.

 

[delvryboy 5,000+ posts]

I'm not reading that mess.....

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

ha ha speaking of electronics sorry watching HSN... There is this portajump on there which was kinda cool. But the guy had an automotive battery and this thing next to each other. had a multimeter and tested the voltage. "ok lets check the voltage on the portajump. wow 29.97 volts. Now lets take the automotive battery. there you go 12.7. " she goes wow "he goes yeah see this little thing puts how more then this automotive battery. try to carry one of those around in your glove box (this portajump is TINY by the way)And you plug it into your cigarette lighter and it charges it over 10 mins enough to start. Now the funniest part about this is. He was referencing how it put out more volts yet it was much smaller then the automotive battery....Last time I checked doesn't the transformers on neons put out like 10,000 volts and they are not very large at all. High volts no amperage. now if they made this little porta thing and it put out more amps then the battery I would be impressed. I guess it just ticked me off he referenced that it put out more volts and it is so small... thinking that size doesn't have a lot to do with volts...... I was like what an idiot salesman .

 

[vehementSPL 10+ year member]

umm OK? read it you might learn something

AHHH I learned something that got my curiosity up ... OHM came from

Georg Ohm

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Part of the problem with this conversation is that people come up with all sorts of stupid analogies like "What if this amp A is putting out 600W RMS and the other is a 400W RMS amp?" These theoretical analogies hold no value because because:

a) There is no such thing as "RMS Power".

b) You need to look at the crest factor, average power, and duration of the signal.

The easiest way to put this is that a speaker is capable of handling a given amount of average power over a given period...as the period decreases, the power increases....as the period increases, the power decreases.

There is such a fundamental misunderstanding about power in this industry that it's ridiculous.