numerous subs???

[Beerdrnkr 5,000+ posts]

I agree with this statement 100%. Adversely if you are looking for Quality sound pressure more subs owns 1 sub with a billion watts. One sub is only gonna sound so good. As for SPL though you can make one sub do a 172 plus. However I am into music at insane levels clearly. Not obnoxious spl with no care of quality.

I'd take 12 woofers off of 250 each anyday over 3K on 1 sub.

By the way I have a BTL now and it impresses the chit out of everyone. Personally I hate it cuz My havocs sound WAAAAAAAAY Better!!

Awww man, now your making me rethink my setup:crap: I wanted to be really loud and still have it sound clean. My system right now is sounding pretty good so far but that statement makes me wonder how 4 SQ oriented 12's would sound

 

[ronrico418 10+ year member]

El oh el @ this post

To future 150Db build

Just wanna know who your laughing at. Not that it matters but kinda tells me who knows what. It's been common knowledge to me for 20 years.

From one of the first 10 people to do a 150 in the history of time.

Lemme know we are close and I can help you

EVERYBODY HAVE A GOOD DAY - TRY TO HAVE FUN - TRY TO LAUGH

at yourselves and at each other. I try it everyday. I make mistakes and learn from it but am respectful at the same time. If anyone is offended please note that is not my intent. I am hear to learn and have a lot to offer. Thanks sincerely Joe ROD

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Not sure what your saying. Can you do the math?

Fi Q; https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15480b8b02a45e8/shopdata/0020_Q/product_overview.shopscript

12": Sd = 481cm^2

481*3 = 1443cm^2 total cone area for the three 12's

18": Sd = 1210cm^2

1443 - 1210 = 233cm^2 more cone area

Since they each have 27mm Xmax, the three 12's have a Vd of 3.9L, the one 18 a Vd of 3.27L

20*log(3.9/3.27) = 1.53db

So the three 12's are capable of 1.5db more output

 

[ronrico418 10+ year member]

Awww man, now your making me rethink my setup:crap: I wanted to be really loud and still have it sound clean. My system right now is sounding pretty good so far but that statement makes me wonder how 4 SQ oriented 12's would sound

PM sent

4 SQ oriented subs will have incredible SPL. Don't let the SQ fool you. It happens to so many people.

Did you know that the Fi SSDs are the equivalent to the RE's used in the world record holder for BassRace? owned by Tommy McKinney's (Ho Problems) 24 12s.

Not a BTL or XXX

You can have your desired SPL and sound good. I have no desire to hear another BTL. I already know how its gonna sound. Don't get me wrong - with the daily option it is a better woofer than almost any other SPL specific subwoofer but there is an unwanted banginess (spyder sound) that I cannot stand. I want it LOUD and CLEAR and to play every note. The BTL will never do this to my satisfaction. The SSD,Havoc,Q are all incredible subs and better than most people will ever own in there lifetime. I have used all.

I have lots of experience with Fi/AA if anyone would like to know the differences.

thanks

 

[armitank]

To future 150Db buildJust wanna know who your laughing at. Not that it matters but kinda tells me who knows what. It's been common knowledge to me for 20 years.

From one of the first 10 people to do a 150 in the history of time.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

hahaha this dude cracks me up

 

[ronrico418 10+ year member]

Fi Q; https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=15480b8b02a45e8/shopdata/0020_Q/product_overview.shopscript
12": Sd = 481cm^2

481*3 = 1443cm^2 total cone area for the three 12's

18": Sd = 1210cm^2

1443 - 1210 = 233cm^2 more cone area

Since they each have 27mm Xmax, the three 12's have a Vd of 3.9L, the one 18 a Vd of 3.27L

20*log(3.9/3.27) = 1.53db

So the three 12's are capable of 1.5db more output

THANK YOU VERY MUCH

my 8th grade math didn't have all this. hehe

So now you all see how close in fact it is

3 12's cone area combined are 1443cm^2

1 18 is 1210cm^2

DON't just go by the circles. The circles are much more - but we are not talking circles. we are talking cone-area

Something to think about when you wanna run 24 12s cuz 8 18s will give em a run. Or if you wanna run 4 12s. 2 18s should blow em away since they would almost come to 6 12s cone area. FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

 

[ronrico418 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gifhahaha this dude cracks me up

One of my favorite bass songs is A Touch of Evil.

Slayer Rules.

My buddy had a Slayer S10 back in the day and hit 154 in the 501-1000 watt class. That was a record in 1994. I did 151.4 in 1991 at the Daytona SBN's. Record at the time was 152.8

There was a time when 150 was almost impossible to acheive and the first 20 people to do so were know as the 150 club with jackets.

If you wanna hear someting funny I'll tell you this. I wish I still had my jacket or that all of this would have been posted on the internet but in 1991 - 1994 we didn't have the internet. Usually funny stuff is true. Thats why Seinfeld rules

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I still think that power pwns cone area. Really there is alot more factors in the car that needs to be taken care of as well. But what would you rather do when you go to an spl comp? A dd 9915 with alot of power? Or 10 12" pheonix gold subs, with the same amount of power? See where I am getting at?

Honestly, physics disagrees with you.

Double cone area while holding power the same = 3db gain

Double power on a single driver = 3db gain

Double power & double cone area (hence, doubling your displacement) = 6db gain

But, one thing to consider is the power distribution as Kyle mentioned. When you just keep doubling power, only at very low power levels are you going to see a 3db gain. Once you start getting into relatively higher power levels, various power compressions are going to begin setting in......at some (not very high) point doubling power may only net a 2db gain, then a 1db gain......then no gain at all. There is a limit to the power game. In terms of increasing output, it's the least efficient method.

Here is Sundown's measurements from testing on one of their woofers;

17.7 watts @ 133.2 dB

33.9 watts @ 135.9 dB

66.5 watts @ 138.8 dB

120.4 watts @ 141.3 dB

236.7 watts @ 143.7 dB

448 watts @ 145.1 dB

765 watts @ 146.2 dB

999 watts @ 146.3 dB

1399 watts @ 147.2 dB

1886 watts @ 147.2 dB

Notice what happens. In the beginning, at very low power levels, the increase about matches theory perfectly. But what happens at higher power levels? The jump from 448w to 999w should have yielded a gain of 3.48db......yet they only gained 1.2db.

Not only will doubling your cone area net you a gain around 3db (all things equal), but depending on the power levels you may also suffer from less power compression, again increasing the output relative to a single driver.

Now there are concessions to be made to the cone area argument. No, don't try to squeeze ten 18's in the hatch of a CRX. There simply isn't enough room, and you'd choke the hell out of the woofers.

But the best results will generally be had by maximizing your cone area first for the amount of room you have to work with. Especially considering the efficiencies you can gain from proper enclosure design, etc.

Throwing more power at the problem isn't the best answer.

EDIT: And your comparison of the DD and the PG's has no bearing on the discussion, as they are two different subs. Different factors at play, etc.

 

[njaykaplan 10+ year member]

This is the most helpful bit of information i've read here in a while now, thanks squeak.. Making me reconsider how i'm going to handle the power i have in my trunk. I use my backseat and could nicely fit about 9 cu ft, and normally use 1 to at most 2 12s (Memphis Mojos) and see decent numbers, but i'd like to break 150. This little bit of reading might help me redesign my softtop convertible and see my goal.. Was given hell locally about "I wont be able to break 140 without pressure being able to build up in my car."

 

[ronrico418 10+ year member]

squeak9798 ~ VERY WELL EXPLAINED

Thanks Again for all of your intelligent input explained to everybody in simple terminology