No more active: high power coaxials?

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Coax can work well if they are on-axis, like in the kicks. Off-axis tweeter's lack high frequnecy response. I do not like coax in doors.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Coax can work well if they are on-axis, like in the kicks. Off-axis tweeter's lack high frequnecy response. I do not like coax in doors.

Wouldn't that really limit the stage height? I've never ran anything in the kick panel area before; I've always ran mids in the doors and tweets low in the pillars.

 

[smgreen20 10+ year member]

As weird as it may seem, NO. It's actually one of the best spots. The wave length distances are close to bring the same. That helps with staging, width and the tweeters are on the same axis point.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

As weird as it may seem, NO. It's actually one of the best spots. The wave length distances are close to bring the same. That helps with staging, width and the tweeters are on the same axis point.

I've never fiberglassed before though. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[pimpnyou204 10+ year member]

I wish I could save that post ^

Whys that

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

the reason i have never liked coax in the front doors is the tweeter aiming/location. low in the door behind a grill will result in an overall loss in detail and high frequency response. tweeters blocked by knees are not easily heard.

kicks take a lot of work to do well, usually involving some permanent modifications to the car - but with a kick source the need for T/A is diminished. i currently run door midbass, kick mid, and apillar tweeter. tonight i changed signal pathways to simplify the system. luckily my xtant amps are very flexible. i have wired these two 403a amps up in over a dozen different ways in the past few years - various combinations of passive bridged or bi-amp, active with amp crossovers, active with external crossovers, active with processors, active with a HU only - and a combination of running a 2-way or 3-way front stage with a variety of speakers including 1" dome tweets, 2" full range, 3.5" mids/full, 4" mids/full, 6.5" mids, 6.5" midbass. the front stage amps have remained the same throughout.

+all of the theory i have posted before on PLD, IID, ITD, and HRTF is spot on (no surprise).

+kick mids can help build a 2-seat car.

+door midbass is easy and performs well if properly treated.

+kick midbass is difficult and even after it's well built you can encounter resonance in the floor.

+small, full-range cone drivers don't work off axis - no high frequency response. they can sound very smooth though.

+a-pillar tweeter aiming is vital - mostly in it's relationship to the windshield. aiming back at the C-pillar works well but level is crucial and the left tweeter should have a stronger signal in the left ear compared to the right ear of both passengers (and vice-versa) - tweeter location and aiming control this.

+a-pillar tweeter aiming that's horizontal has phase interference off the glass.

+factory dash locations (corners pointing up) can work well if you want a non-focused sound stage - you get many arrivals.

+if the vehicle/cavity resonance of the speaker location is within the bandwidth of the speaker - change something (damping or x-over)

+the more things you put in the signal path, the more things you hear in addition to the original signal.

/my ramblings at 1am

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

^^^thanks for the post. I think I'm leaning towards trying out some HAT speakers, either the Mirus or Imagine coaxial/braxial.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Coax can work well if they are on-axis, like in the kicks. Off-axis tweeter's lack high frequnecy response. I do not like coax in doors.

while its rare I disagree with you I'm going to disagree..

it's still way to directional to have your speakers so low..

I've had a drimatic increase by building door panels to rise the mids and tweeters..

it drastically lower sound dispersion and made soundstage and imaging much more definable..

what I mean is down low you can hear the tuba comes from the left but that's about as good as its gets..

up heigh closer to the ear with no obstructions I can tell how far left the tuba is in reference to the other instruments..

I love active simple because you can balance different recording to better suit your listening habits..

also held flatten fr..

personally I don't need or care for active head units..

good amps like zapco reference have active crossover networks you set and forget..

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

the reason i have never liked coax in the front doors is the tweeter aiming/location. low in the door behind a grill will result in an overall loss in detail and high frequency response. tweeters blocked by knees are not easily heard.
kicks take a lot of work to do well, usually involving some permanent modifications to the car - but with a kick source the need for T/A is diminished. i currently run door midbass, kick mid, and apillar tweeter. tonight i changed signal pathways to simplify the system. luckily my xtant amps are very flexible. i have wired these two 403a amps up in over a dozen different ways in the past few years - various combinations of passive bridged or bi-amp, active with amp crossovers, active with external crossovers, active with processors, active with a HU only - and a combination of running a 2-way or 3-way front stage with a variety of speakers including 1" dome tweets, 2" full range, 3.5" mids/full, 4" mids/full, 6.5" mids, 6.5" midbass. the front stage amps have remained the same throughout.

+all of the theory i have posted before on PLD, IID, ITD, and HRTF is spot on (no surprise).

+kick mids can help build a 2-seat car.

+door midbass is easy and performs well if properly treated.

+kick midbass is difficult and even after it's well built you can encounter resonance in the floor.

+small, full-range cone drivers don't work off axis - no high frequency response. they can sound very smooth though.

+a-pillar tweeter aiming is vital - mostly in it's relationship to the windshield. aiming back at the C-pillar works well but level is crucial and the left tweeter should have a stronger signal in the left ear compared to the right ear of both passengers (and vice-versa) - tweeter location and aiming control this.

+a-pillar tweeter aiming that's horizontal has phase interference off the glass.

+factory dash locations (corners pointing up) can work well if you want a non-focused sound stage - you get many arrivals.

+if the vehicle/cavity resonance of the speaker location is within the bandwidth of the speaker - change something (damping or x-over)

+the more things you put in the signal path, the more things you hear in addition to the original signal.

/my ramblings at 1am

**** you sound like me rambling just a better writer..

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I agree low speakers can be located and still suffer from obstructions, also the HRTF is greatly affected. Kick aiming is crucial.

I was referring to coax in factory locations with no modifications, which is what I thought the op was doing, door pods are a different story

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

ic

yea coaxials aren't the greatest in general but can sound great..

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I have had success installing the Imagines, I like the simple 6dB/oct crossover and I like the midrange in general.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

I have had success installing the Imagines, I like the simple 6dB/oct crossover and I like the midrange in general.

Good to hear, I'm talking to Scott about grabbing some display units for a little discount. I heard the mid is great, and since it plays up so high and so well, I imagine having your entire vocal range coming from the mid is a big plus...we'll see.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

What kind of power were you putting to them? I'll probably be running a 24db/oct crossover at 80hz.

 

[RAM_Designs 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for all of the help guys. I talked to Scott B. and picked up a display set of Imagine 6.5's...just got my USA2200 in to power them, so we'll see how it works out.