Newbie Here - Advice?

[SaulTurnedPaul]

Hi all -

I'm a super-green newbie and know little about car audio so don't make me feel like a idiot please //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif. I just bought a '99 Chevy Malibu and would like to make a few enhancements to my sound system. This is my first car and everything is stock. Now, I'm not looking to do any competitions, nor am I looking to spend a lot of money (is around $300 reasonable?). I'm a college student so I'm sure you can all understand.

I listen primarily to indie rock, a little pop and Celtic (an odd mix, I know.) What I want out of the system is a fair amount of bass and good mids and highs. Since I don't listen to rap or techno I don't need dual 12's or even dual 10's. Here's what I'm thinking, and feel free to comment: A single 10" with enclosure (I have a huge trunk), and perhaps some new tweets and midrange drivers (the stock speakers may sound fine once the bass improves though). The speaker size I can work with for the midrange/tweeter setup is 4"x6".

Here's some questions: What equipment do I need to have a 10" sub in the trunk and how much will it cost for installation and the equipment itself? Doesn't putting a sub in the trunk dampen the sound? Also, can I keep the stock deck (it has a tape and CD player) or do I need to get a new one? OR, do I even need a sub? Would perhaps some new 4x6 speakers be enough bass for my needs? Will I be able to do any of the installation myself, or will I have to pay someone to do it for me (I build computers and service electronics so I may have the aptitude to do this myself).

Comments please.

Thanks guys,

Sean

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[limitkid7 5,000+ posts]

I Say Do The Profile Amp (4channel) 1 Kicker 10compvr Ported 1 Set Of 5.25 Alpine Type R's And Call It A Day......... Yes You Can Keep Ur Deck

 

[BumpnRanger 10+ year member]

i would keep the stock speakers because they do sound nice in a malibu. you can keep your factory stereo if there are pre-outs in the back of it or you can get a peice from circuit city or somewhere and hook your amp up that way but i would go with 1 JL Audio 10" W3 in a ported or sealed box.(whether you like tight bass or not) with a Profile 300. should do you good.

 

[SaulTurnedPaul]

Thanks for the replies guys. Where would be the best place to buy this stuff, and what should I do about installation? Can I do it myself or should I have someone at Good Guys or some place like that do it for me?

Sean

 

[cwzilly 10+ year member]

Thanks for the replies guys. Where would be the best place to buy this stuff, and what should I do about installation? Can I do it myself or should I have someone at Good Guys or some place like that do it for me?
Sean

If your looking to spend $300 you should do it yourself. You could ask here about installation and/or at my car audio forum (here would do you fine). Replacing speakers isn't difficult really unless your replacing the factory wire (witch isn't necessary; only for flood cars, ect...); simply use the wiring harness. Computer building is more difficult than speaker replacement. The only thing that I can think being a pain is the door panel, if that has to be removed in your Malibu? I can pull up some "do it yourself" websites if you would like? Are you ok with the sound of your factory speakers?

Buy your equipment online; cheaper than going to like Best Buy, Curcit City, and other retail chains. The odd thing is, it's cheaper and you get better stuff..... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smash.gif.499e08a4a35ffaf54f4c8194fb8fe8ed.gif

Hummmm, you will need to run your sub with a amplifier (or look forward to replacing your reciever in a few months if you don't?). Some good amps for the $$$ are Profile, and USaccoustics in my opinion; although, if you look online you can find some good deals!

 

[cwzilly 10+ year member]

Seattle is buitefull; anywise, hows the Malibu? I'm looking for a "good" car since mine is junk and scares me to death //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif Shakes at 50mph, transmission is getting clunky, ect... I need a job though (well, I have a job, but what I mean is I need A job).

Ok, I'm back; $300 is a pretty tuff budget for car sterio (it's fairly expensive) //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif Hummm, I guess you could keep your factory reciever; although you will be missing some features like crossover settings, loudness, ect... Use speaker levels on amplifiers (note: not all have them) and/or a line converter, but these may cause noise problems and don't give a "clean" signal. I can't really say anything about them, since I've never had experience with them. I suppose they will do? Use your factory speakers if you want a sub, or maybe just replace your fronts along with a sub? Amplifier to power a sub, and a box; plus wireing. I'm estimating at least $80 for a decent/good 10" or higher subwoofer, and maybe $30 +/- for a wireing kit for the amplifier. You can get a good/decent amp for $100 +/-. Then you will need a enclosure for your sub, witch varies quite well in price (maybe $60-$80 for "good" air tight construction). If you can and fill you are capable, then build your own box and save money..... Check out these online stores:

• http://www.cbrstereo.com/
  
• http://www.ikesound.com/
  
• http://www.thezeb.com/
  
• http://www.sounddomain.com/?ref=cara
  

 

[SaulTurnedPaul]

If your looking to spend $300 you should do it yourself. You could ask here about installation and/or at my car audio forum (here would do you fine). Replacing speakers isn't difficult really unless your replacing the factory wire (witch isn't necessary; only for flood cars, ect...); simply use the wiring harness. Computer building is more difficult than speaker replacement. The only thing that I can think being a pain is the door panel, if that has to be removed in your Malibu? I can pull up some "do it yourself" websites if you would like? Are you ok with the sound of your factory speakers?
Buy your equipment online; cheaper than going to like Best Buy, Curcit City, and other retail chains. The odd thing is, it's cheaper and you get better stuff..... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smash.gif.499e08a4a35ffaf54f4c8194fb8fe8ed.gif

Hummmm, you will need to run your sub with a amplifier (or look forward to replacing your reciever in a few months if you don't?). Some good amps for the $$$ are Profile, and USaccoustics in my opinion; although, if you look online you can find some good deals!

I think I can probably handle replacing the speakers myself. I don't think the door panel needs to be taken out on the 'Bu but I'll make sure this evening. By the way, I do like the factory speakers for their mid/high output, but the low end is almost saddening. On any kick drum for any type of music it sounds like someone is hitting a coffee can.

The thing is, I have an Onkyo surround sound system at home with an active 150 watt 8" sub and that does just fine for me, so I figure that a single 10" will be plenty for me in the 'Bu, especially considering the music I listen to. I'll definately look online - it seems I can afford an MTX, Sony, Pioneer, Kicker, Bazooka or RF. Which one of these would be the best?

Seattle is buitefull; anywise, hows the Malibu? I'm looking for a "good" car since mine is junk and scares me to death Shakes at 50mph, transmission is getting clunky, ect... I need a job though (well, I have a job, but what I mean is I need A job).
Ok, I'm back; $300 is a pretty tuff budget for car sterio (it's fairly expensive) Hummm, I guess you could keep your factory reciever; although you will be missing some features like crossover settings, loudness, ect... Use speaker levels on amplifiers (note: not all have them) and/or a line converter, but these may cause noise problems and don't give a "clean" signal. I can't really say anything about them, since I've never had experience with them. I suppose they will do? Use your factory speakers if you want a sub, or maybe just replace your fronts along with a sub? Amplifier to power a sub, and a box; plus wireing. I'm estimating at least $80 for a decent/good 10" or higher subwoofer, and maybe $30 +/- for a wireing kit for the amplifier. You can get a good/decent amp for $100 +/-. Then you will need a enclosure for your sub, witch varies quite well in price (maybe $60-$80 for "good" air tight construction). If you can and fill you are capable, then build your own box and save money..... Check out these online stores:

http://www.cbrstereo.com/

http://www.ikesound.com/

http://www.thezeb.com/

http://www.sounddomain.com/?ref=cara

Seattle is beautiful indeed, we're getting some blue skies around here for the first time in months! The 'Bu is in great condition (100k mi), I bought it for $4k straight up after doing a CarFax, having a mechanic check it out and test driving it twice. The ****** is new with a year warranty and all it needs is a new rack and pinion sometime in the next 6 months, which'll cost about $300 to fix myself. I've been looking for a car for about 3 months, so this is the product of a lot of research and scouring classifieds and stuff. What's this POS that you drive? And where do you work? I'm at a dot-com now so I think that classifies as A job. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif If you look around long enough you'll find a replacement, you just gotta be patient...

Yeah, I know $300 is tough for car stereo, but my needs aren't very significant. I think I just wanna do 1 10", ported enclosure, amp, and that's it. I don't know if I should build the enclosure.. any sites you know of that show you how to do this? And by putting the sub in the trunk, does that muffle the bass, or no?

Thanks for all your help!

Sean

 

[cwzilly 10+ year member]

The thing is, I have an Onkyo surround sound system at home with an active 150 watt 8" sub and that does just fine for me, so I figure that a single 10" will be plenty for me in the 'Bu, especially considering the music I listen to. I'll definately look online - it seems I can afford an MTX, Sony, Pioneer, Kicker, Bazooka or RF. Which one of these would be the best?

I have a 10" Peerless in my car and it sounds good (300watt amp/ sub is 300RMS)! You might not even need to power the sub that much considering most subs thes days have pretty high efficiency (SPLratings). I did have my Peerless on a 140watt Orion cobalt amp and it still hit deep and sounded good; although sounds better with the 300watt USacoustic amp //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I hear that Sony, and Bazooka subs stink, and therefore being that you can get better quality subs for the same price you might as well go for it! I think Kickers and MTX's are more for SPL rather than sound quality, but what do I know? Those are basically "mass marketed" brands; have you ever heard of Elemental Design, Diamond Audio, Boston Acoustics, Eclipse, Focal, Image Dynamics, DEI, Onyx, OZ audio, and other brands? From my knowledge those are the "ones" to go for, and they have less expensive units. I have a Peerless, have you heard of them.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif I really can't say whats the best, but if you look (those websites I gave you are a good place to go) you can find these at markdown prices. It's the same way with home audio; you got the mas-marketed brands like Sony, Keenwood, Pioneer, ect... at retail chains like Best Buy and so fourth; then you got the "speacilty" brands at non-retail shops (I'm sure you have them in the seattle area?) and on the internet. Specialty brands are usual better than the mas-marketed stuff filled with middle men and people just wanting profits.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/greedy.gif.5a53e6246569d7ab79867170f3b06629.gif Just my opinion, go for the specialty brands!

Boston Acoustics

Elemental Design

Onyx

OZ audio

........and more.

What's this POS that you drive? And where do you work? I'm at a dot-com now so I think that classifies as A job. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif If you look around long enough you'll find a replacement, you just gotta be patient...

1992 Cavailer RS convertable with the 2.2 liter 3valve 4cylinder automatic (yes, quite detailed am I); runs strong and no serious problems lattely, but with 240,000miles on the original motor (100k on ******) it's bound for something.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif I just graduated High School so I'm not expecting $30hour job; just something to get me saving and that I don't mind (to embarrass to say where I work). 14applications wrote, and still patiently looking and waiting.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Yeah, I know $300 is tough for car stereo, but my needs aren't very significant. I think I just wanna do 1 10", ported enclosure, amp, and that's it. I don't know if I should build the enclosure.. any sites you know of that show you how to do this? And by putting the sub in the trunk, does that muffle the bass, or no?

I don't know of any sites that show how to do this, since I don't have the tools to build a box myself; I found mine w/ a Cerwin Vega HEDseries sub for $40, a good deal might I say. Putting the sub in the trunk doesn’t hurt really; it may be a good idea to cut a hole somewhere or just fold down a seat, but it shouldn't be a problem since bass is omni-directional.

 

[cwzilly 10+ year member]

O` yeah, if your going to port, then you have to make sure you tune the port right, and choose the right box (same for sealed). I'm not really familuar with tuning a port in a ported box, for I've always gone the sealed box way for that tightness.

Do you know about/how to install a amplifier?

--Power wire connects to the battery(use the correct size/guage)

--Ground wire bolted to the cars bare-metal fram (or something else)(same guage as power)

--Turn on lead connected to a switched 12-volt power (power that's on only when the key is in the on or accesory position); usually tied in with the recievers turn-on.

--Speaker wire

 

[SaulTurnedPaul]

I have a 10" Peerless in my car and it sounds good (300watt amp/ sub is 300RMS)! You might not even need to power the sub that much considering most subs thes days have pretty high efficiency (SPLratings). I did have my Peerless on a 140watt Orion cobalt amp and it still hit deep and sounded good; although sounds better with the 300watt USacoustic amp //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I'll check them out. So you ran it before with a 140W Orion, did you notice any problems when turning the sound up or for bass-heavy songs - like did the sound cut out if there was a shortage of power? What happens when a sub is underpowered? I know in traditional home speakers when you underpower something it does damage to the amplifier of the signal and to the speakers themselves, but does this hold true with car audio?

I hear that Sony, and Bazooka subs stink, and therefore being that you can get better quality subs for the same price you might as well go for it! I think Kickers and MTX's are more for SPL rather than sound quality, but what do I know? Those are basically "mass marketed" brands; have you ever heard of Elemental Design, Diamond Audio, Boston Acoustics, Eclipse, Focal, Image Dynamics, DEI, Onyx, OZ audio, and other brands?

I've heard of only Elemental Design, BA, and Eclipse. I'll have to read up on the others. I'll stay away from Sony and Bazooka because I've heard very similar things - that they ****! In the end, whatever gives me the most bang for my buck is what I'm going with. Afterall, its a Malibu, not a RSX.

I have a Peerless, have you heard of them.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif I really can't say whats the best, but if you look (those websites I gave you are a good place to go) you can find these at markdown prices. It's the same way with home audio; you got the mas-marketed brands like Sony, Keenwood, Pioneer, ect... at retail chains like Best Buy and so fourth; then you got the "speacilty" brands at non-retail shops (I'm sure you have them in the seattle area?) and on the internet. Specialty brands are usual better than the mas-marketed stuff filled with middle men and people just wanting profits.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/greedy.gif.5a53e6246569d7ab79867170f3b06629.gif Just my opinion, go for the specialty brands!

Yeah we got a lot of audio distributors over here, both retail (Circuit City, Best Buy, Good Guys, etc.) and independent. I'll start looking at the more specialty stuff.

1992 Cavailer RS convertable with the 2.2 liter 3valve 4cylinder automatic (yes, quite detailed am I); runs strong and no serious problems lattely, but with 240,000miles on the original motor (100k on ******) it's bound for something.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif I just graduated High School so I'm not expecting $30hour job; just something to get me saving and that I don't mind (to embarrass to say where I work). 14applications wrote, and still patiently looking and waiting.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Wow, I didn't even know that Cavaliers were made as convertables! That's interesting. And it sounds as though with 240,000 on the engine you've gotten some good use out of that puppy, I'm surprised its even lasted that long really. I'm hoping to get 175,000 out of my 'Bu, by then I figure I'll be out of college and can afford a newer car. I also just graduated HS, and after having a McJob I'm glad I've finally gotten into the dot-com industry. Don't worry about getting a better job, it'll come - I definately know how you feel. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Then you'll be able to buy a new car and get some new toys for it.

I don't know of any sites that show how to do this, since I don't have the tools to build a box myself; I found mine w/ a Cerwin Vega HEDseries sub for $40, a good deal might I say. Putting the sub in the trunk doesn’t hurt really; it may be a good idea to cut a hole somewhere or just fold down a seat, but it shouldn't be a problem since bass is omni-directional.

Wow, you got a real good deal. The cheapest box I've been able to find is like $60, so where'd you get yours? My back seats in the 'Bu all fold down so maybe I should point the subwoofer towards the interior. I see a lot of subs pointed outwards and even some downwards - does this make any difference?

 

[SaulTurnedPaul]

O` yeah, if your going to port, then you have to make sure you tune the port right, and choose the right box (same for sealed). I'm not really familuar with tuning a port in a ported box, for I've always gone the sealed box way for that tightness.
Do you know about/how to install a amplifier?

--Power wire connects to the battery(use the correct size/guage)

--Ground wire bolted to the cars bare-metal fram (or something else)(same guage as power)

--Turn on lead connected to a switched 12-volt power (power that's on only when the key is in the on or accesory position); usually tied in with the recievers turn-on.

--Speaker wire

Haha I only know that an amplifier takes a signal and, well, amplifies it. I don't know what they're used for except to help power subs and speakers. Would an amp that has a peak of 200W be acceptable for this little project? I might be able to get one from a friend. And is the speaker wire special in any way? Tell me what I need to know because I'm ignorant with all this stuff!

Thanks again,

Sean

 

[cwzilly 10+ year member]

I'll check them out. So you ran it before with a 140W Orion, did you notice any problems when turning the sound up or for bass-heavy songs - like did the sound cut out if there was a shortage of power? What happens when a sub is underpowered? I know in traditional home speakers when you underpower something it does damage to the amplifier of the signal and to the speakers themselves, but does this hold true with car audio?

No problems what so ever; 140watts isn't underpowering it at all. Also true for car audio, underpowering can do damage to the speaker and the signal isn't to clear either. You can run most car subs from 30-50watts just fine.

I've heard of only Elemental Design, BA, and Eclipse. I'll have to read up on the others. I'll stay away from Sony and Bazooka because I've heard very similar things - that they ****! In the end, whatever gives me the most bang for my buck is what I'm going with. Afterall, its a Malibu, not a RSX.

Lol, RSX's are pretty nice; I want the 6-speed manual!

Wow, I didn't even know that Cavaliers were made as convertables! That's interesting. And it sounds as though with 240,000 on the engine you've gotten some good use out of that puppy, I'm surprised its even lasted that long really. I'm hoping to get 175,000 out of my 'Bu, by then I figure I'll be out of college and can afford a newer car........QUOTE]
It's a combination of luck and care-ness I suppose. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I take care of my car exceeding the manufacturers recommendations. Just take care of it I guess; mine gets a oil change every 1,000 miles but that’s because it leaks a little and burns it up. I also dont bunny start and run...lol. Never understood the people who take off only to fly up to another car or red light.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif

Wow, you got a real good deal. The cheapest box I've been able to find is like $60, so where'd you get yours? My back seats in the 'Bu all fold down so maybe I should point the subwoofer towards the interior. I see a lot of subs pointed outwards and even some downwards - does this make any difference?

From someone I know; sold the box and sub to me for that much; not really a "finder" I guess. Don't get to "cheap" of a box; you want air-tight quality 3/4" thick boards (most boxes are this way). Sub placement makes a hell of a difference in my opinion; home or car. If you put the sub in the corner the sound waves bounce off the corner walls creating more bass response. I don't know what downward pointing does, but pointing a sub towards the trunk's lid causes the waves to bounce back into the interior (hint that pointing it forward the waves bounce off the seatback and away from the interior). Just experiment when you get your sub; move it around the trunk and so fourth. Mines pointing back, and is fairly close to the left front corner, it seams to sound the best hear since more annoying rattles are present towards the back corners of the trunk... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/banghead.gif.8606515f668c74f6de0281deb475b6fd.gif

 

[cwzilly 10+ year member]

Haha I only know that an amplifier takes a signal and, well, amplifies it. I don't know what they're used for except to help power subs and speakers. Would an amp that has a peak of 200W be acceptable for this little project? I might be able to get one from a friend. And is the speaker wire special in any way? Tell me what I need to know because I'm ignorant with all this stuff!
Thanks again,

Sean

Don't pay attention to peak power ratings, there just falsely amusing. It basically tells how much power can be produced at a high brief musical note. Go for the RMS rating; it tells how much power is continuously being produced. It goes further... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif The voltage rating also tells how much power; a 12volt amplifier rated at lets say 80watts RMS actually produces more power than a 14volt 80watts RMS ratting amplifier; consider that a cars nominal voltage is 12volts. This is why car speakers are in 4ohms and lower rather than a home speaker at 8ohms for 120volt outlets I guess. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif You also want a MOSFETpower amp, and most amps these days have them (old amps from like the 70's don't); provide high effeciancy (note: low 12volts in a car) and faster response. Built in Low-Pass filter (unless you can or are willing to invest in a separate crossover); again, most amps these days have them. For your low-pass Xover you want a 18dB/octave or higher slope. I don't know the details of slopes, but slope rating basically tell how much the crossover "quites" beyond it's set crossover slopes; basically if you have a low slope rating lets say 6dB/octave on a low-pass crossover you will hear higher frequencies through the subwoofer since the crossover cant "quite" fast enough; therefore subs aren't meant to play higher frequencies like the human voice and therefore it would degrade the system.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif You also have the option at running the sub/amp at different ohm rattings if your amplifier can handle it?

Also, note that tweeters can be used at 12 and 18dB/octave slopes and a midwoofer can be used at 6dB/octave slopes (or none); that would be an importance if you where to buy a component set--that is the speaker level crossover, but never mind that...

Speaker wire? Hummm, 14/12guage should do fine. The size of wire you use for power to connect to your battery depends on the amplifier, how much watts, and other factors. I'm using 8guage power wire on 300watts with the amp behind my seat (cover it with a blanket when I leave my car

so:

• good size power wire for your amp so it wont "choke"; sub amps are typically 1/0 guage to 8guage. This depends on amp placement, and how many wattage, ect...
  
• 18dB/octave or higher low-pass crossover; a variable crossover is a plus!
  
• take in consideration the amps volt/RMS rattings.
  
• MOSFETpower a definate
  
• consider running lower impedence at like 2ohms (instead of typical 4ohm); must have two or more subs, or a dual-voice coil sub. Rarely are there 2ohm subs to be found. Basically dubbles the power of an amp that supports it!