My thoughts on the detriot big 3

[Astyl 10+ year member]

Everyone here knows whats going on with GM / Ford / Chrysler and how theyre beggin for money because they think the business is gonna go down the ****ter. But honestly? do they really give a**** what happens? Stop trying to Bull****, we all know the CEO's of those companys make like 30 million a year salaries so really what the hell does it matter to them as people? No matter what happens theyre gonna be rich, instead of dealing with all the bullcrap why not just quit and walk away from all the problems and still have like 200 million in the bank its not like your gonna run out of money just retire and call it quits. AS PEOPLE they are fine no matter what happens even if the business goes bankrupt.

Seriously if i was in there position and kept getting criticized by congress and 20 different news agencys about what i do, ide just quit and take my 200 mill i got in the bank from my salarys over the years and just retire at 40 years old and never work again in my life. Regarldess of what happens with the business itself, you **** sure know that the CEOs have there own ***** covered financially no matter what happens

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[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

Government bailing out companies removes all incentive to succeed.

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

I have been watching the Senate Banking Committee coverage feeds today and I have come away with a different perspective than I had before. Here is a snapshot of what I saw.

1) Ford is solvent and does not need help, but it would take the low interest loans in the bailout and would pay off existing higher interest debt with those funds. Smart business. The other part for Ford is the restructuring of labor and legacy costs with the UAW that is neccessary for GM to survive. Ford would expect the same deal that GM gets.

2) Chrysler is 80% owned by Cerbus. Cerbus has plenty of cash on hand and could fund all of the current and future needs of Chrysler on it's own. However, they are remiss to do so. They see Chrysler as an investment that they would like to see pumped and dumped. Pumping in cheap public loans would get them there. They could then sell their stake at a premium and cash out. If they funded the needs, it would take many years for Cerbus to see a ROI.

3) GM is phucked without a bailout. They are in dire straits. Their current debt structure is not possible to maintain under any assistance that the government could provide. They need $7B to survive through Jan 31, 2009. That is just to pay the bills and keep the lights on. After that period, they would need additional funding, or a large market rebound that would provide additional sales. What is needed for GM to survive is to pay off their debts at $.30 on the dollar, cut their current employee salaries to new hire levels, and half their commitment to the SIBA fund (pensions). Without those steps, they are doomed. If they cannot make those changes without going bankrupt, then they will be forced to do so under Chap. 11.

4) The UAW has said they have made great concessions in the last 3 years and would be unfair to expect much more out of their pockets. They are not committing to much change as of today beyond what has been done in the last 3 years. This is what will need to be done to save GM. Whether that is through legislation or through bankruptcy, it will happen. If not, there will be NO GM to pay ANY SIBA fund.

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

i thought all three CEO's made less than $30 mill, its still noting compared to the $230 million CEO's at WAMU and Citubank were making.

 

[yne721 10+ year member]

i'm fucked

 

[crunktimes.com 5,000+ posts]

Didn't one of them say he will work for free if they pass the bailout?

I have a feeling no matter what even if this bailout works we will see GM die in the future, I wonder if they close up shop what happens to the rest of the cars they have left over? I would not mind a new Tahoe if the price were right.

 

[tappin_azz 10+ year member]

i didnt read the OP but i think the lions, tigers, and pistons all **** ass

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

Didn't one of them say he will work for free if they pass the bailout?
I have a feeling no matter what even if this bailout works we will see GM die in the future, I wonder if they close up shop what happens to the rest of the cars they have left over? I would not mind a new Tahoe if the price were right.

They all said they would work for a salary of $1, didn't mention anything of how much there stock would skyrocket

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

4) The UAW has said they have made great concessions in the last 3 years and would be unfair to expect much more out of their pockets. They are not committing to much change as of today beyond what has been done in the last 3 years. This is what will need to be done to save GM. Whether that is through legislation or through bankruptcy, it will happen. If not, there will be NO GM to pay ANY SIBA fund.

Did they give any specifics on the "concessions" they made? Somehow I doubt that they are really under the gun here.

I think the unions are partly to blame for the big 3 tanking. Their pay scales are out of control. Under no circumstances should some assembly line worker or forklift driver be clearing $100k a year, I don't care how long you've been there.

I would think they would realize that if they don't cut back on their wages then there will be NO wages because the company will be gone.

 

[lilmaniac2 5,000+ posts]

Did they give any specifics on the "concessions" they made? Somehow I doubt that they are really under the gun here.
I think the unions are partly to blame for the big 3 tanking. Their pay scales are out of control. Under no circumstances should some assembly line worker or forklift driver be clearing $100k a year, I don't care how long you've been there.

Truf, over paid union workers to go along with dumb engineers

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

I watched the senate hearings as well. The one Moody's investor/analyst dood said to stay out of bankruptcy the big 3 would need between 75 to 125 billion, not the 34 billion they are asking for now.

Bankruptcy and shedding the baggage they carry is the only way to get back to a stable structure. I guess the gov can keep dumping money into them until they get back straight and people can buy cars again too, they will still have their liabilities though.

And it did sound like Ford is in a much better spot than the other two.

Did they give any specifics on the "concessions" they made? Somehow I doubt that they are really under the gun here.
I think the unions are partly to blame for the big 3 tanking. Their pay scales are out of control. Under no circumstances should some assembly line worker or forklift driver be clearing $100k a year, I don't care how long you've been there.

I would think they would realize that if they don't cut back on their wages then there will be NO wages because the company will be gone.

The union dood in the hearing just said they've made alot of concessions already and just basically sat there and looked pissed the whole time.

Sorry but all the workers at a lower wage and benefit package is better than no workers with no income. The union might just insert their own foot into their ***.

 

[yne721 10+ year member]

i didnt read the OP but i think the lions, tigers, and pistons all **** ass

what are you talking about the lions dominate

 

[Ken448 10+ year member]

4) The UAW has said they have made great concessions in the last 3 years and would be unfair to expect much more out of their pockets. They are not committing to much change as of today beyond what has been done in the last 3 years. This is what will need to be done to save GM. Whether that is through legislation or through bankruptcy, it will happen. If not, there will be NO GM to pay ANY SIBA fund.

Biggest problem in the industry right there. UAW has sucked them dry "fighting" for their members "rights" Align the wages AND BENEFITS with the rest of the country, and now they are getting somewhere.

GO LIONS!!!! WEEEE At least we will get the perfect season!!!!!

And now, back to you, Lugnutz:

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

The union dood in the hearing just said they've made alot of concessions already and just basically sat there and looked pissed the whole time.
Sorry but all the workers at a lower wage and benefit package is better than no workers with no income. The union might just insert their own foot into their ***.

And until the UAW gets off their pedestal, then that is whats exactly going to happen. Get the wages down to reasonable levels and perhaps GM won't have to go under. I guess they'd rather have everyone get laid off then be proven wrong?

If he can't name any specific examples then obviously he just wants to keep giving everyone in the UAW fat paychecks until they FIAL completely and then they're all really screwed.

Damn unions.

 

[loopkiller 10+ year member]

Biggest problem in the industry right there. UAW has sucked them dry "fighting" for their members "rights" Align the wages AND BENEFITS with the rest of the country, and now they are getting somewhere.
GO LIONS!!!! WEEEE At least we will get the perfect season!!!!!

And now, back to you, Lugnutz:

The issue now is that if you take away the funding for the pensions of people who counted on it being there, how are those people going to live now? I would guess the tax payer will still foot that bill in the end. It is a complex issue that is not as easy to fix as pointing a finger.

Current employees making a very good living driving a forklift with 20+ years in are going to be fawked. They are a few years away from retiring and are going to get the biggest portion of the shaft. Not only are they going to have to work for a smaller wage today, but they might not even get a fully vested pension either that they were promised. I feel for those people. They are not entitled per se, but they made plans based on the assumption that they had a very good wage and pension ahead.

BTW, the Lions ****, but you already knew that. I do hope with all my might that they beat the Vikings this week though. The Williams Wall should become the Williams Hole. Please Lord let it be.

BEAR DOWN!