Most powerful sub I can run off of a MMats 3500.05

[murph 10+ year member]

I am actually have a WTB thread for a 4hp motor atm, wasn't really looking a the lms ultra. I am mainly looking for a 4hp motor, or a full TC 5200.When you say the soft parts are not on par with what TC used to be, does the 5200 fall into this category?

They stopped making the 5200. When they did make it though it had quality soft parts.

 

[Bwap]

They stopped making the 5200. When they did make it though it had quality soft parts.

Ok thanks, if you don't mind I have a couple more questions.. I want to get it right what im looking for. lol

If I built one, with the power I have to offer, would I be better off with an 8 layer aluminum or a 4 layer in the 4hp?

And if the answer is 4 layer, would I be better off with a black top TRF?

 

[murph 10+ year member]

Ok thanks, if you don't mind I have a couple more questions.. I want to get it right what im looking for. lol
If I built one, with the power I have to offer, would I be better off with an 8 layer aluminum or a 4 layer in the 4hp?

And if the answer is 4 layer, would I be better off with a black top TRF?

Get an 8 layer aluminum for sure. Also 5200 motors for some reason sell for less than TRF motors. I believe it is just because TRF's are more rare. Also if you get the 5200 you can get a QCA ring and screw on your basket.

 

[Bwap]

Get an 8 layer aluminum for sure. Also 5200 motors for some reason sell for less than TRF motors. I believe it is just because TRF's are more rare. Also if you get the 5200 you can get a QCA ring and screw on your basket.

Thanks for the info ^^

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Out of all the things mentioned, I'd lean towards a 5200. It's probably the strongest motor outside of the DDZ as that's a 4inch coil too. The 5200 has ALOT of motor force though, even for a 4inch coil, and doesn't have as stiff of spiders. Very low Q, like .2 something. However, I'm not sure where motor force falls into your application? It's like buying a car and asking for whatever has the most horsepower. Yes, they can give it to you, but that's not really what you buy a car for! Does it have the space you need, styling, handling, fuel economy, etc,etc.

What does the BL have to do with your goals? That's only one parameter to look at when buying a sub, again akin to worrying about horsepower, without handing. I mean, do you want SQ at all? Low distortion, flat response, or both? Are you space restricted? What is your output preferences in terms of overall response. Saying "I wanna hit 150" means nothing if we don't know how big a box you can use and what frequency you plan on doing it at, nor how much fidelty your willing to give up in the process. I just don't see the point in throwing out brands without knowing what you really want out of your system. I'm sure it's not simply bragging that you have the highest BL of any sub out there... What's your actual performance measurements?

 

[Bwap]

Out of all the things mentioned, I'd lean towards a 5200. It's probably the strongest motor outside of the DDZ as that's a 4inch coil too. The 5200 has ALOT of motor force though, even for a 4inch coil, and doesn't have as stiff of spiders. Very low Q, like .2 something. However, I'm not sure where motor force falls into your application? It's like buying a car and asking for whatever has the most horsepower. Yes, they can give it to you, but that's not really what you buy a car for! Does it have the space you need, styling, handling, fuel economy, etc,etc.
What does the BL have to do with your goals? That's only one parameter to look at when buying a sub, again akin to worrying about horsepower, without handing. I mean, do you want SQ at all? Low distortion, flat response, or both? Are you space restricted? What is your output preferences in terms of overall response. Saying "I wanna hit 150" means nothing if we don't know how big a box you can use and what frequency you plan on doing it at, nor how much fidelty your willing to give up in the process. I just don't see the point in throwing out brands without knowing what you really want out of your system. I'm sure it's not simply bragging that you have the highest BL of any sub out there... What's your actual performance measurements?

I hear what your saying. The main reason I wanna go with a TC or another powerful motor, is because I want to be able to tear it down and make a new beast out of it in the future(or soon). I have a lot to learn, so I figured in the mean time while I learn more, the TC would be a good sub.

The TC impressed me because not only it has a powerful motor, but also it has 10 inch spiders/spacers. Which I have saw on a few nice subs(tantrics, b2 for instance.) The QCA ring is convenient. The qts troubles me too, its .159. From what I have read, that means its more suitable for midbass... yet I heard that the 5200s dig down low.

That's where if I got the TC and didn't like the sound, I could tear it down and change the qts(changing the sound) but still have the powerful motor... as any other sub I would be a lot more sad if it blew or if I wasn't satisfied with it.(motor,QCA,10"spiders/spacers cant beat the leftovers on these)

From my understanding, the motor is the most important part when looking to build a sub. Because I thought that the more powerful the motor, the more it does with each watt. So if you put the same soft parts on one motor as a less powerful one, the more powerful motor would have better control with the more power per watt. idk if im correct with this thinking, but its hard to find info on sub building/in depth info on tsps. so its what ive come up with haha.. im open to criticism or help understanding. xD

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

The low Q on the 5200 does 2 main things. One it makes it one heck of an SPL sub if you get the right parts on it, it will peak VERY hard right near tuning, that also makes it very hard to design a good box for one if flat response is your goal, at least ported. Ported it will dig low, in a fairly small box, minus the huge port in needs of course, airspace however can be pretty small. Also, nice thing about the .15 Q is that if you seal it, you can literally make the box as small as you want, as the Q will never be over .5 IIRC lol. You basically get the same output putting the sub in a 2 cube box as you will a 5 cubic foot box.

Best way I can put it, it's not always about making the best sub.. It's about making the best sub for your application. Without knowing what kind of car this thing is going in, how big a box you want and how you want it to sound, it's basically all pissing upwind. For example, if you wanted output above 60h, because your midbass only make it to 80 with authority, you'd be unable to do that very easy with a 5200. Only way I can think of would be a 6th order and again you'd be fighting the woofer, especially if you went with the 8 layer coil.. See where this is going? It all comes down to what you want. And if you don't know that, it's best to honestly, get an off the shelf woofer until you figure it out.. All, IMHO, but I've been around a while and seen quite a bit. Most people jump from supersub to supersub for this very reason, they A. don't know what they actually want from a sub and B. they don't know how to get it.

 

[Bwap]

The low Q on the 5200 does 2 main things. One it makes it one heck of an SPL sub if you get the right parts on it, it will peak VERY hard right near tuning, that also makes it very hard to design a good box for one if flat response is your goal, at least ported. Ported it will dig low, in a fairly small box, minus the huge port in needs of course, airspace however can be pretty small. Also, nice thing about the .15 Q is that if you seal it, you can literally make the box as small as you want, as the Q will never be over .5 IIRC lol. You basically get the same output putting the sub in a 2 cube box as you will a 5 cubic foot box.
Best way I can put it, it's not always about making the best sub.. It's about making the best sub for your application. Without knowing what kind of car this thing is going in, how big a box you want and how you want it to sound, it's basically all pissing upwind. For example, if you wanted output above 60h, because your midbass only make it to 80 with authority, you'd be unable to do that very easy with a 5200. Only way I can think of would be a 6th order and again you'd be fighting the woofer, especially if you went with the 8 layer coil.. See where this is going? It all comes down to what you want. And if you don't know that, it's best to honestly, get an off the shelf woofer until you figure it out.. All, IMHO, but I've been around a while and seen quite a bit. Most people jump from supersub to supersub for this very reason, they A. don't know what they actually want from a sub and B. they don't know how to get it.

Bah its so difficult lol... well as far as needing the TC to hit up to 80hz, that's not a problem if it cant.. I have four 8" midbass in my car, and I already cross my subs at 63hz on the deck and 80 on the amp... so they are pretty limited in their range, and I figure these setting would be similar for the TC?.. maybe even lower idk

Ohh yeah and the reason im not specifying a car is because it will temporarily go into my Volvo s80, until I get a large SUV. That's another reason I want the versatility/rebuild options the TC offers. The TC can be torn down and built into a similar sounding sub as the main ones you hear/see around right?... I don't want to pick a brand at random, id much rather take a shot in the dark and have another shot with the 4hp than pick a random company and not be satisfied left with a meh motor compared.

How do you think this sub would sound in a sealed box?

Do you think I can make 4.1 cubes max work for a ported box for the TC?

What off the shelf woofer would you recommend for my application?(4.1cubes max, about 2700watts, I want the usual.. ground pounding, SPL, SQ) lol

How is the TC 5200 not an off the shelf woofer?.. the one im looking at buying is full stock.

Sorry for all the questions, im very inquisitive and you seem knowledgeable. ty //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[murph 10+ year member]

Bah its so difficult lol... well as far as needing the TC to hit up to 80hz, that's not a problem if it cant.. I have four 8" midbass in my car, and I already cross my subs at 63hz on the deck and 80 on the amp... so they are pretty limited in their range, and I figure these setting would be similar for the TC?.. maybe even lower idk
Ohh yeah and the reason im not specifying a car is because it will temporarily go into my Volvo s80, until I get a large SUV. That's another reason I want the versatility/rebuild options the TC offers. The TC can be torn down and built into a similar sounding sub as the main ones you hear/see around right?... I don't want to pick a brand at random, id much rather take a shot in the dark and have another shot with the 4hp than pick a random company and not be satisfied left with a meh motor compared.

How do you think this sub would sound in a sealed box?

Do you think I can make 4.1 cubes max work for a ported box for the TC?

What off the shelf woofer would you recommend for my application?(4.1cubes max, about 2700watts, I want the usual.. ground pounding, SPL, SQ) lol

How is the TC 5200 not an off the shelf woofer?.. the one im looking at buying is full stock.

Sorry for all the questions, im very inquisitive and you seem knowledgeable. ty //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Finding a full stock 5200 is like finding a needle in a hay stack. Most, unless in a collection are reconed by now to the owners specs. 4.1 cubes for the 5200 can and will work but, it depends on what your goals are to whether that will be enough.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Bah its so difficult lol... well as far as needing the TC to hit up to 80hz, that's not a problem if it cant.. I have four 8" midbass in my car, and I already cross my subs at 63hz on the deck and 80 on the amp... so they are pretty limited in their range, and I figure these setting would be similar for the TC?.. maybe even lower idk
Ohh yeah and the reason im not specifying a car is because it will temporarily go into my Volvo s80, until I get a large SUV. That's another reason I want the versatility/rebuild options the TC offers. The TC can be torn down and built into a similar sounding sub as the main ones you hear/see around right?... I don't want to pick a brand at random, id much rather take a shot in the dark and have another shot with the 4hp than pick a random company and not be satisfied left with a meh motor compared.

How do you think this sub would sound in a sealed box?

Do you think I can make 4.1 cubes max work for a ported box for the TC?

What off the shelf woofer would you recommend for my application?(4.1cubes max, about 2700watts, I want the usual.. ground pounding, SPL, SQ) lol

How is the TC 5200 not an off the shelf woofer?.. the one im looking at buying is full stock.

Sorry for all the questions, im very inquisitive and you seem knowledgeable. ty //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Yeah, as Murph already stated, I assumed rebuilt 5200 as TC sounds hasn't made those in several years IIRC, the best ones were the ones from a few years ago, even before the were audiopulse and closed down, it's very hard to find a woofer like that. However if you've found one, that isn't a bad choice. Also, what size woofer are we talking about? I'm assuming 15 as you said trunk and SUV and that tends to be the most catchall size for both vehicles, sorry if you mentioned, just didn't see it. If you want to run it in your volvo, tbh, I'd start with a sealed box. I'm not sure how much trunk room is in one of those, but as I said, they do very well in small sealed boxes, they won't get peaky and they will still hit low notes very well considering the box size it's in. Once you try it sealed, you can figure out where you need more oomph and how much. It's a tricky woofer to design a box for honest real SQL, as I said they get peaky fast, rolling off hard above 60 and peaking high at tuning. I'd start with a small sealed and then realize if you port it your going to gain quite a few decibels, but only in a small bandwidth, probably 10hz worth is where you'll see most of the gain, so 20-30, 30-40, 25-35. Once you know where you want the extra effeciency, and how much, you can build a box around it.

Other off the shelf woofers that are good for general groundpounding have mostly been named at this point. How much does the seller want for the 5200? That will be of some influence here.

 

[murph 10+ year member]

@Bwap http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofer-classifieds/589035-custom-red-tc-5200-15-a.html

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

edit..

(yeah what murph said)

 

[Bwap]

[quote name='murph']@Bwap http://www.caraudio.com/forums/subwoofer-classifieds/589035-custom-red-tc-5200-15-a.html[/QUOTE]

Yeah I saw that, pretty nice price. I have a couple problems with it though, shifted slugs and no QCA..
The fact it doesn't have a QCA ring isnt a big deal, what gets me is the slugs.
What caused those slugs to shift, can it be fixed and does it affect performance?

Also how do you think this sub compares to a stock 5200?