Morel Elate Titanium 602 VS FOCAL K2 POWER 165 KX2

[DANANDME]

Hi Guys

i have very little experience with car audio .
(my knowledge and profession is in home audio (high end etc

i know that one must ear a speaker before buying - but in my country its impossible to ear this 2 models that i am interested in

i need your advise and experience with this 2 sets

my biggest problem in sound is usually the tweeters , off course bass and midds are super important to me - but i very frequently ear a lot of very expensive speaker that have really harsh highs - this can destroy everything -for me

(so ,my taste is airy and open highs ,but without any harshness .i like it to be smooth and natural (not cold nor worm - just natural

i heard(from others) that focal (car audio) tweeters used to be harsh ,but last years model- are much more tamed in this regard

to make it easier ,i will give you an example of brands and kind of tweeters that i like in home audio

(sllik domes such as ATC and SPENDOR(my first option is pro ribbons

(i dont like metallic domes such as : diamond ( B&W) and BERYLLIUM(FOCAL UTOPIA

(Focals K2 POWER uses a fiber dome (not metal

any thoughts and advice will be very appreciated

many thanks

Dan​

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[Leungie]

Anyone got experience with these?

I'm looking at both as well and can get the Focal for what seems like a pretty good deal. (2 sets of Focal ES 165KX2, RF P1S4 10" sub, Audison SR4 amp, alpine R- A75M amp, alpine 0850S DSP for 3300USD installed, all new)

But I heard the morel might be more laid back / warmer? Which is probably what I would prefer.

First time posting here and also first time upgrading the stereo of my car.

Cheers and thanks!
James

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Hi Guys

i have very little experience with car audio .
(my knowledge and profession is in home audio (high end etc

i know that one must ear a speaker before buying - but in my country its impossible to ear this 2 models that i am interested in

i need your advise and experience with this 2 sets

my biggest problem in sound is usually the tweeters , off course bass and midds are super important to me - but i very frequently ear a lot of very expensive speaker that have really harsh highs - this can destroy everything -for me

(so ,my taste is airy and open highs ,but without any harshness .i like it to be smooth and natural (not cold nor worm - just natural

i heard(from others) that focal (car audio) tweeters used to be harsh ,but last years model- are much more tamed in this regard

to make it easier ,i will give you an example of brands and kind of tweeters that i like in home audio

(sllik domes such as ATC and SPENDOR(my first option is pro ribbons

(i dont like metallic domes such as : diamond ( B&W) and BERYLLIUM(FOCAL UTOPIA

(Focals K2 POWER uses a fiber dome (not metal

any thoughts and advice will be very appreciated

many thanks

Dan​

None of the flaws matter when you do a proper tune and install which will get you optimum performance and satisfaction everytime. Throw out the passive crossover, get a DSP. Run active network crossovers, get an RTA and do extensive EQ and time alignment work and it wont matter if you chose the focal or morel, they will sound pretty similar by the time you are done because it will be tuned to your preference.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Anyone got experience with these?

I'm looking at both as well and can get the Focal for what seems like a pretty good deal. (2 sets of Focal ES 165KX2, RF P1S4 10" sub, Audison SR4 amp, alpine R- A75M amp, alpine 0850S DSP for 3300USD installed, all new)

But I heard the morel might be more laid back / warmer? Which is probably what I would prefer.

First time posting here and also first time upgrading the stereo of my car.

Cheers and thanks!
James

Same response^^^

 

[Leungie]

Same response^^^

Thanks Jeff. Although I do understand tuning through DSP will help but surely a 'warmer' speaker after tuning will still be warmer than a 'colder' sounding speaker?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks Jeff. Although I do understand tuning through DSP will help but surely a 'warmer' speaker after tuning will still be warmer than a 'colder' sounding speaker?

Warmer or brighter is mainly dependant on frequency response which is controlled via EQ, you can make either set warm or bright. Ive made my buddy's overly bright focals (straight out the box with passive crossover sounding like a tin can, no midbass, weak lower midrange, overly sharp highs) into a very smooth, warm, midbassy and pleasant sounding speaker via going active and tuning with REW(rta software) Only thing thats harder to achieve is resolution which is inherent in the speaker's design and some speakers do not have this or is extremely hard to achieve via tuning compared to others. While warm or bright is extremely easy to tune to.

 

[Leungie]

Warmer or brighter is mainly dependant on frequency response which is controlled via EQ, you can make either set warm or bright. Ive made my buddy's overly bright focals (straight out the box with passive crossover sounding like a tin can, no midbass, weak lower midrange, overly sharp highs) into a very smooth, warm, midbassy and pleasant sounding speaker via going active and tuning with REW(rta software) Only thing thats harder to achieve is resolution which is inherent in the speaker's design and some speakers do not have this or is extremely hard to achieve via tuning compared to others. While warm or bright is extremely easy to tune to.

Thank you once again mate. I'm leaning more towards the Focal KX2 then since the deal seems pretty good.

In a seven seater, would it make sense to have two sets of the same speakers with the sub in the boot?

Thanks for your help Jeff

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I wouldn't care about the rears at all. You can choose some cheapo speakers unless you have a crew of friends you are trying to impress and they ride with you almost all the times. Otherwise spend all the money, amplifier power towards the front stage, acoustical treatments, signal processing, quality of install etc... Because any power towards rear speakers will pretty much destroy your sound quality aka drag your soundstage back or destroy soundstage and imaging completely and you lose the magic of music.

 

[Leungie]

I wouldn't care about the rears at all. You can choose some cheapo speakers unless you have a crew of friends you are trying to impress and they ride with you almost all the times. Otherwise spend all the money, amplifier power towards the front stage, acoustical treatments, signal processing, quality of install etc... Because any power towards rear speakers will pretty much destroy your sound quality aka drag your soundstage back or destroy soundstage and imaging completely and you lose the magic of music.

OK didn't know that at all
I would say I'm the driver 20% of the time (for long drives) and passenger (middle row) majority of the time with city driving.

Then would it mean the soundstage would not be as good if I install same speakers?

Considering Mosconi 130.4 amp to go with these speakers

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

OK didn't know that at all
I would say I'm the driver 20% of the time (for long drives) and passenger (middle row) majority of the time with city driving.

Then would it mean the soundstage would not be as good if I install same speakers?

Considering Mosconi 130.4 amp to go with these speakers

it doesnt matter if its the same, anything that makes noise draws the stage back and causes phase issues and time alignment issues and messes up the center image aka rather than instruments being where they are supposed to be, its a giant messy blob of sound.

You can have a 10 channel dsp which would allow you more precise control and you'll have a preset where its time aligned for the driver for solo drives and a preset where its time aligned for front and middle row. but those 10 channel dsp costs a lot. it'll be front left and right tweeter, front LR mid which is 4 channels, then rear left and right mid and tweeter which is another 4 and then the last two channels are for sub. I'm just assuming you want SQ high on the list and soundstage is one of the most important part for SQ. however you can get away with just a normal active capable head unit with 3 pairs of 4V+ rcas if all you want is loud and clear with decent tonality. You'd pretty much wire one pair of RCAs for both front and rear tweets connected to the same amp channels. another pair for front and rear mids all on the same amp channels. Then sub out for subs. so those are two choices, the latter is simpler and cheaper. The 1st is a lot more complicated takes more time to get right with the DSP tuning and $$$$$$ but your soundstage would be on point.

 

[Leungie]

it doesnt matter if its the same, anything that makes noise draws the stage back and causes phase issues and time alignment issues and messes up the center image aka rather than instruments being where they are supposed to be, its a giant messy blob of sound.

You can have a 10 channel dsp which would allow you more precise control and you'll have a preset where its time aligned for the driver for solo drives and a preset where its time aligned for front and middle row. but those 10 channel dsp costs a lot. it'll be front left and right tweeter, front LR mid which is 4 channels, then rear left and right mid and tweeter which is another 4 and then the last two channels are for sub. I'm just assuming you want SQ high on the list and soundstage is one of the most important part for SQ. however you can get away with just a normal active capable head unit with 3 pairs of 4V+ rcas if all you want is loud and clear with decent tonality. You'd pretty much wire one pair of RCAs for both front and rear tweets connected to the same amp channels. another pair for front and rear mids all on the same amp channels. Then sub out for subs. so those are two choices, the latter is simpler and cheaper. The 1st is a lot more complicated takes more time to get right with the DSP tuning and $$$$$$ but your soundstage would be on point.

I was looking into the Panasonic 8 channel dsp. Any options to get a good sound stage with the 8 channel? Coz their next model up is a 12 channel which costs almost 3x the money.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I was looking into the Panasonic 8 channel dsp. Any options to get a good sound stage with the 8 channel? Coz their next model up is a 12 channel which costs almost 3x the money.

helix 10 channel dsp is the one to go with. panasonic? no one uses those.

 

[Leungie]

helix 10 channel dsp is the one to go with. panasonic? no one uses those.

Sorry I mean Pioneer but I am guessing either way Helix would be the preferred choice haha

Just say if the 10 channel helix dsp is out of my price range for now. Should I go with a 8 channel or just go cheaper with 4 channel?

Thank you Jeff, you have been of so so much help!

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Sorry I mean Pioneer but I am guessing either way Helix would be the preferred choice haha

Just say if the 10 channel helix dsp is out of my price range for now. Should I go with a 8 channel or just go cheaper with 4 channel?

Thank you Jeff, you have been of so so much help!

You can always add it later and rewire the setup and go with the cheap head unit route i listed earlier. get a good amount of power for the 4 channel for clean output since it'll be split between two sets. Add the DSP later.

 

[Leungie]

You can always add it later and rewire the setup and go with the cheap head unit route i listed earlier. get a good amount of power for the 4 channel for clean output since it'll be split between two sets. Add the DSP later.

The head unit includes 360 camera etc and is a 9" touch screen. Arrrrgh hahaha