Mixing subs ftw!

lol ok look at what you said. i was informing those who DONT know you and who DONT know physics entirely, you left out the other half (constructive interference), and didnt specify how they cancel.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/*******.gif.a649d21efc0d1fd4890a6428166586c1.gif
a sound wave does NOT behave like this in the air..... this is the electronic form of the wave as a signal... the WHOLE wave interferes constructive or destructively

204.gif


in the air a sound wave behaves like this...

waterwaveinterference.jpg


where there is ALLWAYS both constructive and destructive interference...

so the !!!!"LAWS OF PHYSICS"!!!! say that 2 soundwaves (unless they originate from the exact same point) must undergo destructive interferrence or "CANCELLATION"

KNOW YOUR SHIT BEFORE YOU TRY TO SAY I DON"T KNOW MY SHIT

 
is that not what i just said? lol

notice the "home theatre" comment in my post.

or better yet here ill quote myself.

laws of physics say when 2 waves meet, depending on their phase, there are constructive and destructive interference. constructive is the waves are in perfect alignment, it doubles in amplitude and is twice as loud. destructive interference is when two waves meet and are 180 degrees out of phase and cancel, thus no sound.

its bad in home theatre depending where you are.
that statement in bold means where you are located in the cabin (room) and it will cancel or amplify based accordingly.

and where did u think i said its either cancel or amplify, and you cannot have both? again, refer to the comment in bold (it depends on location)

 
the waves from 2 different size subs wouldn't cancel much more than that of 2 same size setups, so cancellation isn't really a huge concern, not to mention the sound waves from those subs are SO big that the points at which they would cancel would literrally make up an infinitly small portion of the entire sound wave...

the biggest concern is distortion because 2 different size subs will never put out the same signal so everytime a different signal is added a composite wave if formes like this...

fundsecondthird.jpg


this kind of wave can be more difficult for a single sub to play and sometimes sound like distortion

in the situation of using different size subs this distorion is still completely minisucle because the waves don't intersect but every so often

 
is that not what i just said? lol
notice the "home theatre" comment in my post.

or better yet here ill quote myself.

that statement in bold means where you are located in the cabin (room) and it will cancel or amplify based accordingly.

and where did u think i said its either cancel or amplify, and you cannot have both? again, refer to the comment in bold (it depends on location)


no my post was a responce to where you said i was wrong, that there is not always cancellation between soundwaves...

i simply said yes there is... and last time i checked this isn't hometheater.com...

in home audio the waves have much more space to diffract and so cancellation can become a more obvious problem... i never disputed that

but you shouldn't have attacked my statement as being wrong with something off subject and then act like i'm stupid for it

 
the **** are you getting yourself into? this is completely irrelevant to what i was saying. also, thats only on an electrical signal would it look like that.

um you are way in over your head first off and secondly why the **** would you want to run 2 different sized subs anyways, knowing the output is not the same from one ot another nor is transient response, etc..

and you're last diagram isnt of 2 different size subs (assuming they get the same signal) its of a speaker getting multiple signals of different octaves.

and have you ever heard of standing waves? and AGAIN MY POST SAID CANCELLATION IS MORE EVIDENT IN HOME THEATER

stop trying to impress people after your "italian chip" episode

 
errrr WRONG

laws of physics say when 2 waves meet, depending on their phase, there are constructive and destructive interference. constructive is the waves are in perfect alignment, it doubles in amplitude and is twice as loud. destructive interference is when two waves meet and are 180 degrees out of phase and cancel, thus no sound.

its bad in home theatre depending where you are.

learn your shit before u speak
no my post was a responce to where you said i was wrong, that there is not always cancellation between soundwaves...
i simply said yes there is... and last time i checked this isn't hometheater.com...

in home audio the waves have much more space to diffract and so cancellation can become a more obvious problem... i never disputed that

but you shouldn't have attacked my statement as being wrong with something off subject and then act like i'm stupid for it


really? caraudio and hometheater look alot alike. more space to diffract? you mean reflect i hope. and you spoke that (the cancellation part a little bit back) like thats the only thing that happened when 2 waves met. so i corrected your statement, could have done it more politely though.

and hows it off subject? isnt it what this argument is based upon?

 
the **** are you getting yourself into? this is completely irrelevant to what i was saying. also, thats only on an electrical signal would it look like that.
um you are way in over your head first off and secondly why the **** would you want to run 2 different sized subs anyways, knowing the output is not the same from one ot another nor is transient response, etc..

and you're last diagram isnt of 2 different size subs (assuming they get the same signal) its of a speaker getting multiple signals of different octaves.

and have you ever heard of standing waves? and AGAIN MY POST SAID CANCELLATION IS MORE EVIDENT IN HOME THEATER

stop trying to impress people after your "italian chip" episode

again thats what i said! it was only a electronic representation for one sub, but that isn't as big of a concern with muti sized setups...

so instead of resulting to off topic things to try to make me look bad mr. big shot

why don't you tell me exactly what i said that was wrong and we'll work off of that cause i'm so confused i'm suspecting you own a gym called "globogym"

 
really? caraudio and hometheater look alot alike. more space to diffract? you mean reflect i hope. and you spoke that (the cancellation part a little bit back) like thats the only thing that happened when 2 waves met. so i corrected your statement, could have done it more politely though.
and hows it off subject? isnt it what this argument is based upon?
sound waves "diffract" through the air (grow larger and weaker in concentration) surely you can understand that...

because i never said that constructive interferrance doesn't exist... i only said "cancellation ALLWAYS exists" and you said i was wrong... when i wasn't... at this point i don't think we dissagree on much we are both just confused and frusterated because of it...

 
different models = different processing = different output... so again its possible but stupid when you could much more easily buy matching equiptment...
This is why I responded cot. You seem to contradict yourself... telling thsi guy miniscule differences in level matching will make audible problems, mis-matching equipment creates different outputs (implying that will create problems) yet when we apply that same logic to your system, you break out graphs and sine waves to try and explain just the opposite.
I do not bring this up to fight, I bring this up in an attempt to show you your own logic fights itself... so maybe you should consider taking a second look at your logic ladder.

Its not about sine waves, its not even about sound wave interaction in the air... its about different speakers with different output 'footprints' (freq responses) trying to play the same material. In some areas they will reinforce each other more than other areas. In a situation where we are looking for as level a freq response as possible, having two different driver types/sizes/models trying to deliver the same freq response is only going to complicate things. Not good.

You can add 14 sets of tweeters to your front stage, it will be louder... but will it sound 'better'. The beauty is in the ear of the beholder, THAT is what you STILL do not understand cot. If your system, set up that way, sounds better to you, great. Clearly output is the cornerstone to your key to sounding good, to each their own. BUT there is a far cry from personal preference, to recommending to strangers to do this because 'it sounds better'. You can say it would take an RTA to hear such imperfections, but to a listener who knwos what he's doing, and knows the reference material, it would/could be pretty obvious. Serious EQ'ing could help the problem, and many 'experts' over the years have tried complex xover setups to get it 'right', and some have been successful. But in the end it always comes down to the same thing, too much complication, too much money/effort expended for too little positive result (if any), and frankly... its simply not necessary. Any decent sub system set up properly should be able to handle the 2 to 3 octaves you'd require it to play.

Any arguement you put forth, at this point, is merely sour grapes because you did not know any better when you initially built your system. Admit it, given the choice again, you would not go with four 10's and a 13. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif We all make mistakes, and we've all built some hideous sysems (oh yes, Ive tried my hand at mis-matching subs too when I was younger lol)... but the important thing is learning from your mistake and moving on. You made a mistake, it happens... its time to admit it (to yourself if nothing else) and move on.

 
This is why I responded cot. You seem to contradict yourself... telling thsi guy miniscule differences in level matching will make audible problems, mis-matching equipment creates different outputs (implying that will create problems) yet when we apply that same logic to your system, you break out graphs and sine waves to try and explain just the opposite.
I do not bring this up to fight, I bring this up in an attempt to show you your own logic fights itself... so maybe you should consider taking a second look at your logic ladder.

Its not about sine waves, its not even about sound wave interaction in the air... its about different speakers with different output 'footprints' (freq responses) trying to play the same material. In some areas they will reinforce each other more than other areas. In a situation where we are looking for as level a freq response as possible, having two different driver types/sizes/models trying to deliver the same freq response is only going to complicate things. Not good.

You can add 14 sets of tweeters to your front stage, it will be louder... but will it sound 'better'. The beauty is in the ear of the beholder, THAT is what you STILL do not understand cot. If your system, set up that way, sounds better to you, great. Clearly output is the cornerstone to your key to sounding good, to each their own. BUT there is a far cry from personal preference, to recommending to strangers to do this because 'it sounds better'. You can say it would take an RTA to hear such imperfections, but to a listener who knwos what he's doing, and knows the reference material, it would/could be pretty obvious. Serious EQ'ing could help the problem, and many 'experts' over the years have tried complex xover setups to get it 'right', and some have been successful. But in the end it always comes down to the same thing, too much complication, too much money/effort expended for too little positive result (if any), and frankly... its simply not necessary. Any decent sub system set up properly should be able to handle the 2 to 3 octaves you'd require it to play.
i know very well i've said time and time again that my system is very impractical in almost every aspect, thats why i wouldn't recommend it....

but some of you are under the impression that it has to sound like dog shit, which is far from true... it does still work, and i'm just trying to explain why...

and you seem to think i have no idea what sound quality is and a loud but peaky responce would sound "good to me", this isn't true the best i can explain it is that this particular system makse it so that the 2 different sub systems complement each other very well... if from nothing else but by pure luck...

but the responce is very flat (though not close to the flattest) and very clear (though not close to the clearest)

i told "this" guy not to put them in a box where they would share airspace because even slight differences or a phase thats a bit out of line could cause problems between the 2 drivers...

mine aren't in the same airspace

 
errrr WRONG

laws of physics say when 2 waves meet, depending on their phase, there are constructive and destructive interference. constructive is the waves are in perfect alignment, it doubles in amplitude and is twice as loud. destructive interference is when two waves meet and are 180 degrees out of phase and cancel, thus no sound.

its bad in home theatre depending where you are.

learn your shit before u speak
ya man I remember this from physical science in 8th grade....

maybe we should send dude back through high school eh? lol.

 
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