Magnums or avalanches

[mannyb18b]

I highly doubt anybody here has heard both subwoofers in their proper enclosures, both in 4ft tuned to 28hz model roughly the same with the Ava having roughly 1dB edge in the peak frequency. The Avalanche has 27mm of excursion...and the Magnum im guessing has around 25?. They would both sound the same to the ear having roughly the same room response...there might be a slight 1-2dB difference, but without using a meter there would be no way of knowing. At those high of SPL levels and that low of frequencies, your ears arent very sensitive.
They each have super low distortion, the same amount of group delay, and the Avalanche has a lower inductance...so in no way do I believe that the Magnum is more accurate.

If you wanted sound quality and output, and can afford 3 high excursion woofers Id definetley go infinite baffle or sealed. Each ported enclosure has 20ms of group delay at 30hz and down and a huge 12/14dB peak around 30hz with room gain...(not sound quality by any means)

btw running 3 high excursion subwoofers is not sound quality and will not properly integrate with any sort of frontstage...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

whichever you can get cheaper...

(I'd get the Avas...and stop following the bandwagon)

I would have to completely dissagree with you

 

[thadman 10+ year member]

(Ava is louder response) This is with room gain starting at 60hz (each individual sub is in a 4 cubic foot box tuned to 28hz)

Group Delay

(mag has greater group delay)

the Avas overall SPL lead only gets greater once you increase the box size!

and...if you ever decide to get out of caraudio the Avas will make an amazingly impressive HT setup //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

 

[mannyb18b]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif You should not trust Winisd for ANYTHING.

 

[mannyb18b]

Ok I lied, not anything. Port calculations ftw

 

[thadman 10+ year member]

here they are sealed...

The loudest one is the Ava in a 2.5^3

The 2 middle ones are the Ava in a 1.5^3 and the Mag in a 2.24^3

The least loud is the Mag in a 1.5^3

 

[mannyb18b]

Please refer back to post 78 and 79.

 

[thadman 10+ year member]

what do you disagree with?

3 high excursion woofers in a ported enclosure...even tuned low is NOT SQ, neither is sealed, but thats besides the point.

 

[thadman 10+ year member]

your post (#78) proves nothing...and adds nothing to this thread

WinISD is a very powerful tool that comes exorbitantly close to real world situations. It is much more accurate than most peoples *intuition* of what the subwoofer will sound like.

 

[mannyb18b]

I'm very sorry, but no it doesn't.

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

ISD is the most incorrect program you can find when it comes to predicting output levels...

free lump programs do not account for ANY varibles within the performance of a speaker..

the graphs are based off the static parameters, which change when the driver has power applied to it.. and efficiency... which matters less and less as power is increased..

ISD doesn't factor in compression, inductance, back emf, flux field shifts, the vehicle, the properties of the enclosure.. it factors nothing that occurs real world..

just for example... ISD graph of 1 RE 8 , and 1 ED 8A.. sealed.. .5 cuft box

now... real world... 1 RE 8 and 1 ED 8A, tested in .5 cuft sealed. during the great 8 challenge...

RE 8

Loudest SPL 50 watt = 117.2

Loudest SPL 100 watt = 119.4

Average SPL 50 watt 30-80hz = 113.6

Average SPL 100 watt 30-80hz = 115.39

ED 8A

Loudest SPL 50 watt = 115.0

Loudest SPL 100 watt = 118.3

Average SPL 50 watt 30-80hz = 111.06

Average SPL 100 watt 30-80hz = 114.50

and their graphs of actual output..

RE 8

ED 8A

welcome to the real world...

ISD wishes it came close..

Loyd L.

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

I must agree that WinISD is not a real-world "this is what this woofer will sound like" show of performance. If anything that WinISD is to be used for is to determine port length and/or overall enclosure volume for a given alignment. Group dealy and numbers based SOLEY off of extremely small signal T/S measurements can not show you SQ.

Yes our Mag's have a higher inductance, which comes from our coil being massively longer than the other driver you are comparing it to. One other thing you might want to take a look at is the enclosure volume and signal for the basis of the graphs that you are posting as a comparisson. Again, WinISD only gives you a rough idea of overall -3 dB points and enclosure tuning...nothing more. To stress my point even further, take a look at each drivers' upper frequency extension - they extend to infinity, which won't happen in the real world. Both drivers fall off after a certain point. Again, further supporting the function of WinISD.

Now, to support the people who have HEARD the two afformentioned drivers and like one driver over the other, you can't honestly sit back and look at a computer program that has no idea about what "SQ" even is and say that it has the upper hand against a pair of human ears can you?

If -3's and Fs's determined SQ, the Tekton woofers from back in the day would still reign supreme. They were the efficiency/F3/Fs kings...although you needed a large fridge to house them in to get them to play low. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

*Disclaimer* I was posting this as Loyd was posting his graphs. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[mannyb18b]

Thank you. BassBoxPro FTW

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

*Disclaimer* I was posting this as Loyd was posting his graphs. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

yeah.. took me a minute to formulate that stuff //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

in a nutshell.. ISD at best, is a mediocre program for estimating port tunings, and -3 points in a nonechoic environment

anybody that attempts to use it for more, or to vadidate their arguments... well.. I wouldn't suggest it on any forum with members with real world testing experience.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

P.S. Somebody forgot to call me today... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Loyd L.

 

[bdawson72 5,000+ posts]

I never thought that my debate on the avalanches and magnums would actually turn into a 6 page long forum debate....But thadman u may be the first person 2 try to talk me out of getting a 3rd magnum......but it diddnt work...im still leaning towards the magnums but now the question is what amp should i use to power 3 12 mags?

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

You'll have to contact the company to be certain it will work this way, but a pair of Sundown 1500D's would do nicely on a trio of Mag's.

*edit* I meant to say trio instead of pair originally.