Low watts to high watt sub?

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

*cough* read 3rd sentence of my post *cough*

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

It's as simple as this:
Two ways to kill a loudspeaker: Exceed it's thermal limits, or exceed it's mechanical limits. Clipped, square, sine....it doesn't matter. If those two conditions are not met, the speaker will survive.

A true 150w sub should have no problem dissipating 80w worth of heat, considering receiving it's full power rating of 150w, it (at best) would be dissipating 148.5w of heat.

you re right about the ways to kill a sub! thermal and mechanical, we all know that!, its basic.

now i know for a fact that P1 series sub is not a true 150w sub, i have personally seen them die.

now when you talk about 80w worth of heat, for a sub not to reach the thermal limits. they have to keep on moving, they depend on that when the engineers design the sub, cooling of the coil is a very important part of the equation. now how does a sub cools down. well by moving in and out, again if the sub is being pushed 100W is going to ex curt so far to keep cool, right!, and it does that by expelling or pumping heat out and cool air in by means of that port in the back of sub magnet.

no when a clipped signal is applied. the sub does not excurt as far in and out as it should. but the heat will keeps building up. and with low budget subs and crappy amp like the ones at hand, that might be a problem. im 100% sure thats not a problem with the atomic APX 18" sub, and my JL Audio 500/1 amp. i could clip this combo all i want. but not a crappy amp and a crappy sub "no offence to owners of the P1 sub".

edit: check your second link its asking for a password and user name.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

edit: check your second link its asking for a password and user name.

Works fine for me. But, then again, I'm always signed into that site.

Basically it was just a chart of the numerical figures showing that the difference in time of death between a square wave with X watt worth of power and a sine wave with X watt of power, and that they had similar times till death; basically contradicting everything you just said about a clipped signal overheating a coil faster than a since wave of comparable power.

So, basically you are saying that 80w clipped would kill a sub sooner than 80w pure sine wave; and the testing proved otherwise. Theory is nice; real world is better.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

*cough* read 3rd sentence of my post *cough*

Everybody read it; nobody cared //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/moon.gif.9d317aec3339ffe7fde0638df52c628a.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

Works fine for me. But, then again, I'm always signed into that site.
Basically it was just a chart of the numerical figures showing that the difference in time of death between a square wave with X watt worth of power and a sine wave with X watt of power, and that they had similar times till death; basically contradicting everything you just said about a clipped signal overheating a could faster than a since wave of comparable power.

So, basically you are saying that 80w clipped would kill a sub sooner than 80w pure sine wave; and the testing proved otherwise. Theory is nice; real world is better.

what was the sub and amp combination used on that test?

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

Everybody read it; nobody cared //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/moon.gif.9d317aec3339ffe7fde0638df52c628a.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Who cares about all this jibber jabber you are posting ?

I guess someone has never heard of KISS //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

Clipping a speaker just sounds nasty. Good reason not to clip stuffMy HT amp clips like no ones business, not even 1/2 volume and its clipping ( not loud)

P.S

As usual you " experts" go of on a rabbit trail and just go way way to in depth about things.

All the kid wanted was a simple answer...jeez !//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

i gave him a simple answer:

adjust your gain if you hear clipping cus it could damage that!!!!!!!! sub.

but then squeak9798 want to try and prove me wrong on a subject that i have personal experience on. i have built first hand two home audio amplifiers and know first hand how an amplifier works and what can happen at different situations. and hes trying to prove a point. so we will continue.

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

PowerNaudio, it wasnt directed toward you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

Who cares about all this jibber jabber you are posting ?I guess someone has never heard of KISS //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

you know what youre right! ill drop this subject!.

PowerNaudio, it wasnt directed toward you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

oh no! i got you //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

what was the sub and amp combination used on that test?

http://forum.soundillusions.net/showthread.php?t=47441&highlight=normalized+power

I just realized I initially linked the wrong thread......see if that one works (I logged out of the site and it still allows me to view it)

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

the normalized voltage would represent an amplifier driven into hard clipping.

Normalized voltage (AKA amp at full clipping). This shouldn't have been much of a surprise to anyone knowing that a square wave with the same Pk-Pk voltage as a sine will have almost double the power. As you can see on the spreadsheet and graphs, power handling severely dropped when the square wave was applied in this test. Time to failure was cut by a factor of 4 for most drivers.

so youre saying im right!

An extra test.... Remember when some people say "It doesn't even matter if it is only a few watts, if it's pure distortion, it will ruin your woofers".... Well we took a 10 watt square wave and ran it into a Pioneer 10" subwoofer for a few hours.... Nothing happened to it, of course, the motor didn't even get hot....

i never mentioned that! if thats what you're referring to

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

the normalized voltage would represent an amplifier driven into hard clipping.
Normalized voltage (AKA amp at full clipping). This shouldn't have been much of a surprise to anyone knowing that a square wave with the same Pk-Pk voltage as a sine will have almost double the power. As you can see on the spreadsheet and graphs, power handling severely dropped when the square wave was applied in this test. Time to failure was cut by a factor of 4 for most drivers.

so youre saying im right!

No!

Read the second part about normalized power //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The first test (the one you just quoted) would be equivalent to having a clipped signal with twice the power of a sine wave. That I was never disputing, and wasn't even in the scope of our discussion.

This is what you needed to read:

Normalized power was a little more interesting. We could not prove within the scope of our test that a different signals of normalized power would have any different effects on the driver, regardless of the amount of cone excursion. Some people may still argue this, but it seemed pretty clear to us that whether a square or sine was put into a driver at a normalized power level, it still failed about evenly.

That is the part that contradicts (in real world testing) everything you just said!

Clipped wave and pure sine wave of equivalent power caused the driver to fail at approximately equivalent times. They could not prove that the clipped wave caused the driver to fail sooner than a driver receiving a pure sine wave of equivalent power. This would be the 80w clipped vs. 80w pure sine wave that we were just talking about.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[saywhat? 5,000+ posts]

I also determined it by observing the fact that you can't talk proper english. If english is not your primary language then I apologize. If you are though then you need to go back to grade school to learn how to spell/write/use some grammer.

even if it is...learn english........if ur in america i mean.

 

[PowerNaudio 10+ year member]

even if it is...learn english........if ur in america i mean.

you know what! I am in America and i am American, i was born and raised in puerto Rico which is a commonwealth of the united states of America, it is accepted for me to speak Spanish in America, or a bad English at that, i hold a job and a career, as a us army soldier, which makes more of a part of America than most of you. this is my country and i can speak English in any way i want!, so accept it and live with it!.

another site stating my point: http://www.soundbridge.com/support.htm

Frequently Asked General Audio Questions

SoundBridge Acoustic Labs:1. What Does "Clipping" Mean and Why is it Bad?

Clipping usually means that the maximum output of the amplifier is being exceeded and the tops of the signal peaks are being "clipped" off. During these times the cones of the loudspeakers are essentially receiving a DC signal. This means that most of the energy from the amp is heating up the voice coil instead of moving the cone. Usually loudspeakers fail or burn-up because of this heat. (aka. Thermal Failure) You should also be aware that any clipped signal in the chain can blow a loudspeaker even if the amplifier isn't at full output. Most loudspeakers fail because they are driven by too small an amplifier. The power ratings for a loudspeaker are only valid for unclipped input signals. So, to avoid problems, always operate your gear safely below "clip level".

 

[chinny 5,000+ posts]

e-drama