low cost SQ sub.

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

I disagree, with jazz music you have much faster transients than with most rap. therefore you need a woofer that can keep with these transients and a 15 or 18 cannot keep up as well as a 10 or 12.

so therefore it is not NONSENSE

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

Care to explain why this is wrong?? OR are you just going around the forums and randomly blurting out stuff?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Uhhh, my Aura 10s don't punch at all. In fact, because they're in 1 cube sealed (gross), their Q is in the 0.6-0.75 range. Likewise, my 187 12s in the same size box have a Q of 1.2! The 12s punch 10x worse than the 10s.

What you're stating is a general assumption regarding 10s because they are mostly used in *very* small sealed enclosures (high Q) in vehicles with small cabins (high resonance frequencies) and located close to the passengers (Acoustics 101, distance of wavelengths)

Trust us, you are wrong. I know from firsthand experience. I can make a 15 punch harder than a 10, and I can make a 10 play lower than a 15.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Uhhh, my Aura 10s don't punch at all. In fact, because they're in 1 cube sealed (gross), their Q is in the 0.6-0.75 range. Likewise, my 187 12s in the same size box have a Q of 1.2! The 12s punch 10x worse than the 10s.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say man. I couldn't tell you why your 10s aren't punchy. Every 10 inch I've ever used or heard have been very punchy and so are MOST 12s (which I'm using now).

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

Because how hard a sub hits is TOTALLY dependent on the enclosure. Read the edited post.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Why couldn't someone use an 18 for jazz, or 8's for rap? The comments that larger subs are only for boomy bass type rap music is pure bunk, and yet you seem to be trying to validate that arguement.

BTW.......I never said you canNOT use a 18" for jazz and 8" for rap. What I stated is that I would never use those sizes for those music types. What I was saying is that certain sizes of woofer perform best for certain types of music. I also said it was my opinion and not a scientific fact.

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

Your opinion is limited to your experience, just like the rest of us. What you say is what your eyes and ears, which I don't think have heard a bottom heavy 10 or a high hitting 15. I have.

I've made 3 different enclosures for my last pair of subs (IA 187 12s) and each one makes for a night and day difference in sound.

* Small sealed made them hit hard and hit high

* 1.5 ported to 35 hz didn't hit as hard, but had a better low end

* 3.5 cube (shared) at 32 hz gave them a bottom end like you would believe.

If you had only heard one of these installs, you would immediately think my subs are hard hitting with no low end, well rounded, or low end monsters, I don't think you'd realize they were capable of all 3.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Uhhh, my Aura 10s don't punch at all. In fact, because they're in 1 cube sealed (gross), their Q is in the 0.6-0.75 range. Likewise, my 187 12s in the same size box have a Q of 1.2! The 12s punch 10x worse than the 10s.
What you're stating is a general assumption regarding 10s because they are mostly used in *very* small sealed enclosures (high Q) in vehicles with small cabins (high resonance frequencies) and located close to the passengers (Acoustics 101, distance of wavelengths)

Trust us, you are wrong. I know from firsthand experience. I can make a 15 punch harder than a 10, and I can make a 10 play lower than a 15.

Well, I don't know enough to prove you right or wrong. I would personally like to see a 15 punch as hard as a 10. And I would REALLY like to see a 10 play lower than a 15 (sounds pretty impossible to me seeing how a 10 doesn't have the frequency response that low.) But I guess anything is possible. Anyway, b4 you post a response to this keep in mind that I was ONLY stating my opinon (a generalization actually) on what woofer would tyically work best for HIS music tastes, NOT trying to quote the audio bible.

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

Too true. 10s are pretty universal. You can get them for less than a 12, they generally have smaller enclosure requirements, and in a lot of situations they *do* punch more than 12s. But if you're going to say any mass produced 10 will be like that, it isn't opinion, it's just not correct.

How high a sub hits, or how low it plays will have little to do with the actual sub, unless it's played free air or infinite baffle. Long story short, the box makes all the difference. It's why some people can lead you to the part of Lowes or Home Depot that has MDF while blindfolded. =)

 

[bimma85 5,000+ posts]

Yep unfortunately that’s basically all I have to choose from in my budget…All non-Israeli (everything but morel) is horribly over priced here.

I am visiting the stats soon and picking up a pair of alpine type X component set. (200$ in the States verses about 540$ in Israel)

I didn’t want to buy a sab because the tax limit on goods is 200$ (unless you can hide it) so a sub isn’t an easy thing to hide //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

But assuming I can buy one in the states, and assuming I only have 200-300RMS to power it and I have a very small car (fiat uno) so I need a small box too.

What would you recommend?

ohh and BTW!

Thanks for the quick reply!

What do ya mean by hide? could ya maybe show a $200 sub and carefully place the speakers in a suitcase or something? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I disagree, with jazz music you have much faster transients than with most rap. therefore you need a woofer that can keep with these transients and a 15 or 18 cannot keep up as well as a 10 or 12.
so therefore it is not NONSENSE

It is nonsense.
You are making wide generalities about music types, not just subwoofers. Ive heard some rap with very fast transients and Ive heard some jazz with very low frequency material in it. What you are trying to do is take a complex situation (which subwoofer is the best for a specific application) and break it down into bite sizes pieces your brain and/or experience can absorb (if you listen to this type of music, use this size sub).

There are innermurable posts on this board explaining that cone diameter plays no audible role in a speaker's transient response and how the enclosure's Q will be a MUCH bigger factor in this. Too many posts on this subject already for me to need to explain it again here imo. I will simply refer you to the search button to explain why you are wrong. Its at the top of the page, just right of center between "new posts" and "quick links".

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

None. None what so ever. Thats exactly how many reasons I can think of for you to lose your cool over something so trivial. Not to mention I was already corrected by Raven so you're only about 4 hrs and 10 posts too late on losing your temper. I've already explained where my opinion comes from and that my opinon is just that an opinion and nothing else. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Too many posts on this subject already for me to need to explain it again here imo.

IF the search will explain it then there is NO reason for you to do so. Shut up !! LOL. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I will simply refer you to the search button to explain why you are wrong. Its at the top of the page, just right of center between "new posts" and "quick links

I know where the search button is jack ***. Calm down, take a breath and relax. It's just the internet. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

On a side note: I chose the size and type of my subwoofers based on the type of music I listen to. See, I don't need anyone to tell me what size sub to get. I got those subs because IN MY OPINION 12s are better for the type of music I listen to. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Me lose my cool? Where'd I do that? rofl Im not the one calling names and such. Im quite calm thankyou. Its you that seems to want to throw a tantrum over being disagree'd with. *shrug*

IF the search will explain it then there is NO reason for you to do so. Shut up !! LOL. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I didn't explain it. I said to use the search. Please learn to read before you flame, thanks. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I would personally like to see a 15 punch as hard as a 10.

Not hard at all //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

And I would REALLY like to see a 10 play lower than a 15 (sounds pretty impossible to me seeing how a 10 doesn't have the frequency response that low.)

Who says 10's don't have low frequency response? Who ever it was, wash their mouth out with soap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

But seriously; low frequency extension is dictated by many things (mainly to do with enclosure and speaker design). But, to keep things simple, lets focus on one; displacement. The lower you go in the frequency range, the more important displacement becomes for a given output level. Now; notice here that I said displacement and not cone size. All things equal, a high excursion 10" could have audibly as much low frequency output as a mediocre excursion 15. Also, thanks to a great thing called cabin gain; it is very possible to have a 10" woofer with relatively flat frequency response down to ~10hz in-car. Don't know why you would need anything lower than that........

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Me lose my cool? Where'd I do that? rofl Im not the one calling names and such. Im quite calm thankyou. Its you that seems to want to throw a tantrum over being disagree'd with. *shrug*

Thats alright man, you call it whatever you want to call it. I'm in no mood to argue this moot point any further with you.

Its all good.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Who says 10's don't have low frequency response? Who ever it was, wash their mouth out with soap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Actually Raven already explained to me but thanx in any event squeak. I guess I always thought of a 10" incapable of ultra low extension just because the ratings on most of them don't go as low as say the rating on a 15" or 18". Therefore I just thought most people who wanted really low extension would purchase the larger woofer. Obviously this isn't the case and a lesson learned for me. (yayyy)

So I guess I'll just wash out my own mouth with soap. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif Let me ask you this question though. Why would anyone choose a 15" over a 10" when all they want is tight, punchy bass?? Wouldn't it be easier to achieve this from a 10 than it would from a 15".??? Not sure at all on that one. What do you think?? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif