lost another one to drugs.

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

This will be a pointless thread to make a valid argument in, but still, it has to be pointed out that drug users aren't necessarily all scumbags.
The fact that drugs are illegal is the biggest risk with using drugs, which should probably raise some red flags if you have a brain considering the current "war on drugs" approach to dealing with the "since history began" idea of using drugs as a part of living life.

I use drugs on rare occasions, I drink, so by a lot of your mentalities that makes me a scumbag loser who deserves to be *** ***** by murderers in jail. However, I respect people, I have a good job and am only going up, I maintain great relationships with friends and lovers, and I live a life I am generally satisfied with living. Every life has ups and downs but on the whole I live a fairly upstanding productive lifestyle.

But whoops, I just got caught with a gram of blow on the one night I chose to use it in the last 3 months. Going to jail. Losing my job. Losing respect from society. Felony drug charge in my record, there goes future employment. And on and on and on...

Drugs aren't the problem, because people that are maniacs about doing drugs and being horrendously addicted are going to do so regardless of the penalty because, (check your local police reports) THEY ALREADY DO. Drug laws only **** people to hopeless lives or shove them deeper into hopelessness.

And I'm no ****ing hippie either. I don't even smoke pot or do psychedelics. But ****, if you want to do those things, why the HELL should anyone have the ability to take away your freedom of CHOICE?

this argument is not about anyone taking away the freedom of choice... if i choose to break a law willingly, then i must accept the consequences. people can still choose to use drugs, they have that choice. there are just consequences for doing so.

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

By the way, the wikipedia definition of fascism :

"Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the needs of the state. "

Hmmm, subordinate to the needs of the state. Drug users don't contribute to society (or so big daddy republik tells us on Fox News via soundbytes), so do drug laws = micro-fascism?

I'm not gonna say either way but the idea is certainly implied by the juxtaposition //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

this argument is not about anyone taking away the freedom of choice... if i choose to break a law willingly, then i must accept the consequences. people can still choose to use drugs, they have that choice. there are just consequences for doing so.

But going beyond the here and now of cause and effect, WHY are these laws in place, if WE THE PEOPLE achieve NO BENEFIT from them.

WHY are these harsh penalties NECESSARY, if all they do is HURT WE THE PEOPLE?

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

Im sure you speed, dont make full stops, music too loud, and commit some other minor crimes. He gets 15 years, maybe next time you don't make a full stop let's throw you in jail for hmm 3 days. You broke the law right?

if that was the determined and justified punishment for breaking the law, then thats what would happen. driving infractions have their punishments too. tickets, restrictions, insurance points, privelidges revoked... they have their punishments just the way drug law infractions have theirs.

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

if that was the determined and justified punishment for breaking the law, then thats what would happen. driving infractions have their punishments too. tickets, restrictions, insurance points, privelidges revoked... they have their punishments just the way drug law infractions have theirs.

Traffic violations typically put other drivers at risk. Therein lies the justification for the laws that are broken by these acts.

Drug violations put drug users at risk. How is punishing the user, who only serves to suffer at his own hands, going to make anyone else safer? You can't say this serves as a deterrant because:

"The prison population has quadrupled since 1980. Much of that surge is the result of public policy, such as the war on drugs and mandatory minimum sentencing. Nearly 1 in 4 of the inmates in federal and state prisons are there because of drug-related offenses, most of them nonviolent."

ONE IN FOUR, MOST NONVIOLENT!

Obviously this isn't keeping people out of drugs! It's a drain on taxpayers (including anti-drug activists by the way), it completely ruins hundreds of thousands of lives and familys, and almost never has any positive outcome!

 

[DaveT 10+ year member]

Ok heres another point for you guys, lets see who deals this stuff? Do these people tend to be violent people? Do they endanger people....think about it.

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

Also, you seemed to not notice you threw out the term "justified punishment".

Justified by whom? On what basis?

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

Ok heres another point for you guys, lets see who deals this stuff? Do these people tend to be violent people? Do they endanger people....think about it.

"Nearly 1 in 4 of the inmates in federal and state prisons are there because of drug-related offenses, most of them nonviolent."

 

[IgnoreMe 5,000+ posts]

Ok heres another point for you guys, lets see who deals this stuff? Do these people tend to be violent people? Do they endanger people....think about it.

we're not talking about pablo escobar here....

where are you getting these facts from? how many dealers do you know?

 

[IgnoreMe 5,000+ posts]

just to reiterate

TWISTID is a FLAMING HYPOCRITICAL FAGGGGG!!!!

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

On that note, I'm bowing out of this thread to be discredited by idiots with vague distorted ideologies, because frankly, I'd rather play a little FullTilt hold'em than make the same obvious arguments to people who won't listen unless they agree already. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[DaveT 10+ year member]

we're not talking about pablo escobar here....
where are you getting these facts from? how many dealers do you know?

I saw plenty of it when I lived in oakland.

just to reiterate
TWISTID is a FLAMING HYPOCRITICAL FAGGGGG!!!!

I agree that that's pretty ghey.

 

[hoss 5,000+ posts]

while you make some good points element, as stated earlier, i didnt get into this thread to debate why something is or is not illegal //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

ive stated my stance on how i feel the legality of it should be, and without doing research, thats all i can really contribute to that side of the argument. and its really not worth my time to do any research about it, as i could really not care either way...

all i did get into this thread to state was that a law was willingly broken, and it should be no suprise that there are consequences because of it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif . i cant really say why drugs are illegal, i agree that if they were legalized it would free up room in our legal system, while possibly lowering violent crimes brought on by those in need of the drugs which are currently illegal, and the manner in which they are aquired. plus, it could be a source of tax revenue just as alcohol and tabacco are.

i dont know the exact reasons why drugs are illegal, nor do i particularly care //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif . if a person chooses to do said drugs, i know that they are leading themselves down a path that they have choosen to walk, and as long as they dont harm others, then more power to them and i hope they are happy with where they end up.

but back to my original point, regaurdless of why it is illegal, it is in fact illegal, and when laws are broken, punishments are dealt. thats simply the way it works, it shouldnt be a suprise. my girlfriends uncle is currently serving time in a federal prison for drug charges. do i think he deserves it? i think he deserves every second of every minute he spends in that jail (he is in fact one of the sleazier users. i think bottom feeder is a good description). he has even said that he deserves it, he got caught doing something he knew was illegal, and he said it himself that he might as well face the music, regaurdless of why it is illegal.

 

[04_edge 10+ year member]

shit, someone did get pwnd.

 

[IgnoreMe 5,000+ posts]

I saw plenty of it when I lived in oakland.

I agree that that's pretty ghey.

i have lived in the San Diego area all my life. and then i have lived in the los angeles area for 2 years. and i would disagree.

but lets say just for sake of arguing........why do drugs exist on the black market for gangs and thugs etc, to take advantage of? oh thats right...because its illegal and it produces a huge profit.

good idea...lets keep it illegal so the black market can flurish. if it were legal you wouldnt have to get it from gangs and other violet people ( i have never had to buy from a gang member or anyone violet anyways,but like i said, for the sake of argument)