IMHO GOD > Evolution

[cotjones 10+ year member]

That is all fine and dandy to a degree...if you lived your life full blown with that theory you would never survive day 1.
You have to decide how far your beliefs will lead you. Praying to some uncertain god is just a line I'm not sure I'm ready to cross.

exactly!!!! you wouldn't survive day 1!!! so that being said your life and the reasons you live it, are a lie? there is no point in it, yet you tell yourself that there is because your culture tells you there is? that makes no sence? how did your culture even form without the morals? the morals don't just come from nowhere

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Proof means that a particular result has been observed and the test can be duplicated again and again with the same results. Like the following:
Earth's gravity accelerates a falling object at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s until terminal velocity is reached. That's a proven fact and anyone who has passed the third grade has likely participated in experiments and anyone who has passed the 10th grade has proven the this theory in an arithmetic class.

You see one apple sitting on the table. Then you see Johnny come by and set another apple next to it. Now you see the table has two apples. One plus one equals two. You and everyone else that have witnessed this knows for a proven fact that sitting on the table there is more than one apple, yet less than three. Doesn't matter if there is or is not a word for the number "two" in someone else's language/society/culture... they are aware of the fact that there are "two" apples sitting on the table.

Someone says there is an entity of such wondrous power, it created anything and everything of and in the entire universe. You ask to promptly see and talk to this entity to thank it for doing such a wonderful job. The person that brought the entity to your attention says that you can't see or talk to it, but you should believe it's there anyway. Why should you?

The whole concept is going over your head, I'm afraid.

We "observe" and choose to believe what we wish. Everything we believe (again, notice the use of the word believe) is based on another belief.

I have never seen an electron in my entire life but I believe that they might exist. God is the same concept on a much grander scale.

The end result is still that you can't prove or disprove the existence of god, so why do atheists believe they are any more correct than theists?

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

correct, but you can make inferrences to the best of your knowledge (and thats really all you can do)
so lets go back to the very begining and picture a time without god or morals where man was first gaining intelligence... if there was no morals at one time, then how would man develop them? what would cause a human to want to do the right thing or even recognize the right thing as (something) if not a higher power... there can be no formation of morals without a higher power to instill them, understand what i meen?

That one is easy....

Humans are essentially congregational beings. We are drawn to each other and are usually found in large groups (ever look at a night-time satellite image of a given county and notice the cities?).

Unfortunately, we are also quite territorial, so being in large groups where another human can impose on your space means confrontation.

Confrontation leads to aggression, which leads to the yearning to succeed over other humans.

Succeeding over others means attaining a position of power and keeping others in line with a set of rules.

We call these rules morals or ethics.

The above behavior can be found in any society, in any city/town/village, and in any household.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Proof means that a particular result has been observed and the test can be duplicated again and again with the same results. Like the following:
Earth's gravity accelerates a falling object at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s until terminal velocity is reached. That's a proven fact and anyone who has passed the third grade has likely participated in experiments and anyone who has passed the 10th grade has proven the this theory in an arithmetic class.

You see one apple sitting on the table. Then you see Johnny come by and set another apple next to it. Now you see the table has two apples. One plus one equals two. You and everyone else that have witnessed this knows for a proven fact that sitting on the table there is more than one apple, yet less than three. Doesn't matter if there is or is not a word for the number "two" in someone else's language/society/culture... they are aware of the fact that there are "two" apples sitting on the table.

Someone says there is an entity of such wondrous power, it created anything and everything of and in the entire universe. You ask to promptly see and talk to this entity to thank it for doing such a wonderful job. The person that brought the entity to your attention says that you can't see or talk to it, but you should believe it's there anyway. Why should you?

again the whole issue we are talking about we KNOW cannot be answered by science no matter if the big bang theory, creationist, or eternalist is correct... you can ALLWAYS doubt your results might be the same as a coin toss

just because you get 5 heads in a row does that mean the coin only has heads on it? no no mater how much you test a theory NOTHING is constant even the equation 1+1=2... EVERYTHING is doubtable

perhaps the reality is that you only see the apples as whole's but in other perspective they are not...

perhaps NO ONE else realy exists and your life is something like a (Self-created) dream world where you're mind involentarily is what makes the world around you appear to exist and function

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Here is my whole point that perhaps I danced around too gracefully:

Theism and atheism both require faith. They are of the same vein. It does not make sense to me to say that one is right and the other is wrong when they both rely on the same premise: faith.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

That one is easy....
Humans are essentially congregational beings. We are drawn to each other and are usually found in large groups (ever look at a night-time satellite image of a given county and notice the cities?).

Unfortunately, we are also quite territorial, so being in large groups where another human can impose on your space means confrontation.

Confrontation leads to aggression, which leads to the yearning to succeed over other humans.

Succeeding over others means attaining a position of power and keeping others in line with a set of rules.

We call these rules morals or ethics.

The above behavior can be found in any society, in any city/town/village, and in any household.

again this doesn't make sence, why are we congregational beings? because of morals instilled in us, if life ended after death then there would be no purpose in these behaviors...

think about animals, where do insticts come from? we are talking about something that cannot be observed from science

how does an organic brain translate into the ability to think consciouisly

again, not observeble concepts...

yet we know (or think we do) that they exist

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Here is my whole point that perhaps I danced around too gracefully:
Theism and atheism both require faith. They are of the same vein. It does not make sense to me to say that one is right and the other is wrong when they both rely on the same premise: faith.

right, but one cannot be right without the other being wrong so you must choose to beileve one

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

heres a question, if you succefully transplanted a brain, would you also transplant a person's personality?

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

right, but one cannot be right without the other being wrong so you must choose to beileve one

Sure, one is right and the other isn't, but if you don't know the answer, why would you guess at it?

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

heres a question, if you succefully transplanted a brain, would you also transplant a person's personality?

Now you're just sounding like a crackpot.

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

1. The whole concept is going over your head, I'm afraid.

2. We "observe" and choose to believe what we wish. Everything we believe (again, notice the use of the word believe) is based on another belief.

3. I have never seen an electron in my entire life but I believe that they might exist. God is the same concept on a much grander scale.

4. The end result is still that you can't prove or disprove the existence of god, so why do atheists believe they are any more correct than theists?

1. No, it's not, I'm afraid. You're using circular reasoning. See point #2 of your own post.

2. There's a big difference between belief in a proven theory and belief in a concept. Please revert back to my post about duplicating physical results.

3. And you likely never will see an electron. But we can see entire atoms, and when the measured atomic mass had changed, the result is an isotope. So we know for a fact that the three portions of atomic mass are present because we can physically measure them. Can't do that with an entity that has never been seen, spoken to, or physical proof of existence found.

4. More correct? One can be either right or wrong. Nothing in between. And it's easy to disprove a divine entity when there is zero proof of it's existence. No apples on the table.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

Now you're just sounding like a crackpot.

Only just now?

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Proof means that a particular result has been observed and the test can be duplicated again and again with the same results. Like the following:
Earth's gravity accelerates a falling object at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s until terminal velocity is reached. That's a proven fact and anyone who has passed the third grade has likely participated in experiments and anyone who has passed the 10th grade has proven the this theory in an arithmetic class.

After reading that only 4 in 5 knows the earth rotates around the sun, I question these validity of these classrrom experiments.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

right, but one cannot be right without the other being wrong so you must choose to beileve one

False.

One can not know, or be uncertain.

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

1. again this doesn't make sence, why are we congregational beings? because of morals instilled in us, if life ended after death then there would be no purpose in these behaviors...

2. think about animals, where do insticts come from? we are talking about something that cannot be observed from science

3. how does an organic brain translate into the ability to think consciously

again, not observeble concepts... yet we know (or think we do) that they exist

1. Survivability Insticts.. protection/power in numbers and easier to propagate the species by finding a mate.

2. Instincts are simply behaviors that characterize a living being based on environmental influence. A human that has become acclimated to a tropical environment is going to exhibit stronger initial self-preservation and survival behaviors if dropped in an arctic environment than a human that is already acclimated to an arctic environment and simply coming back from a tropical vacation.

3. That makes no sense to me. Can you maybe restate it in a more articulate manner?