IMHO GOD > Evolution

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

i'm not saying that your experiences on earth are meaningless now, i'm saying that if you cease to exist when you die so does all your memory and purpose of your life, so it would be as if you never existed, that being said how do you know you do exist, maby you are just someone's dream...

can you remember what you were like before you were born? because thats what it will be like after you die... non-existence... and that means that from every individual's perspective, when they die, the universe, (well actually everything) ceases to exist. doesn't seem possible... i couldn't imagin before i was born so i can't imagine going back to that state

Thats where I see things differently. I believe your time spent on earth should be lived to richen the lives of others. Your life is not meaningless when you die (without an afterlife) if you have done good deeds, helped others, furthered mankind, and left an impact. Using religion just to give you a warm fuzzy for after you die is just scared faith!

Like I mentioned before, it is my distinct belief that if I had to choose between theism and atheism, I would chose theism over and over again. Atheism has a very bleak outlook on life and theism is good for shaping very general morality guidelines amongst humans. Additionally, from a logical standpoint, atheism makes no sense; it is a belief that there is no god because there is no evidence of one, but to disprove a claim, you must prove that it is not possible and well....achieving this is impossible. The atheist counterpoint is fundamentally flawed, in my opinion.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif You shouldn't need religion to live within good morals

And on your atheism point I could say there there is no God, but the energizer bunny runs the world, you can't prove me wrong, so its possible //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

That argument is just cyclical and retarded

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

No doubt. Why people can't grasp the concept is beyond me, but they are free to think as they please.


What is even funnier is how defensive atheists are of science when both theism and atheism rely on the same premise. Maybe this is just something I've noticed, but atheists have been way, way more pushy about their beliefs....and flat out rude, in many cases.

For example, it is not uncommon for a theist to have a conversation about their beliefs and an atheist will run in to the conversation just to shout out "there is no god."

Like I mentioned before, it is my distinct belief that if I had to choose between theism and atheism, I would chose theism over and over again. Atheism has a very bleak outlook on life and theism is good for shaping very general morality guidelines amongst humans. Additionally, from a logical standpoint, atheism makes no sense; it is a belief that there is no god because there is no evidence of one, but to disprove a claim, you must prove that it is not possible and well....achieving this is impossible. The atheist counterpoint is fundamentally flawed, in my opinion.

But above all, I remain agnostic because it is always relevant, it encourages further probing into the nature of life, and it makes sense to me. The only thing I'm sure of in life is that I'm not sure about anything and never will be.

EXACTLY!!!

i agree you can't provide phsical evidence of a god...

well actually you can, THE UNIVERSE but forget i said that...

you also cannot prove that there is not a god,

yet you can prove that NOTHING can come from NOTHING...

so doesn't that prove a god since even the BIG BANG would have to come from something or some form of existence (remember nothing can come of nothing)

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Thats where I see things differently. I believe your time spent on earth should be lived to richen the lives of others. Your life is not meaningless when you die (without an afterlife) if you have done good deeds, helped others, furthered mankind, and left an impact. Using religion just to give you a warm fuzzy for after you die is just scared faith!

while yes it seems that way, it can't be true after death, after you cease to exist (to YOU) NOTHING you did during your life has ANY significance, you are PURELY and SUBJECTIVELY NON-EXISTENT... so from your own perspective even your family being bettered by your life has absolutely NO meaning, it's ALL in vain because they and everyone after them will end up in the same shape you are in, pointless and gone!

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

first of all pushing your faith is a wierd concept the one thing you can never do is make someone believe something they don't want to, but if someone believes that they know something beneficial that others don't it's only natural to go crazy trying to tell them
if you know a bridge ahead is out do you just park and watch people drive off a cliff? if you were the least bit sane, no you would do everything in your power to get people to turn around!!!

That analogy just sucks

A bridge being out is solid, everybody that looks at the downed bridge can see, and agree its down. Religion is like a bunch of people got together after not looking at the bridge (that doesn't exist) and just have faith its down then go on a mission trying to spread the "bridge down" message to save people.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

while yes it seems that way, it can't be true after death, after you cease to exist (to YOU) NOTHING you did during your life has ANY significance, you are PURELY and SUBJECTIVELY NON-EXISTENT... so from your own perspective even your family being bettered by your life has absolutely NO meaning, it's ALL in vain because they and everyone after them will end up in the same shape you are in, pointless and gone!

So this is a fear of yours, dying with no meaning...so you seek out something to give you a warm fuzzy about dying and come up with religion as the answer? Its not actually about faith, its about fear of dying in vain?

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif You shouldn't need religion to live within good morals

Of course I agree, but many do need it. I'm sure you've heard of at least one story where someone "finds" religion and changes their ways.

And on your atheism point I could say there there is no God, but the energizer bunny runs the world, you can't prove me wrong, so its possible //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

You could say that the energizer bunny runs the world and I can't prove you wrong and it is possible. All possibly correct. I don't understand how people think they can "prove" anything given the knowledge that we have. Everything is just a belief.

That argument is just cyclical and retarded

That's a pretty poor attitude. If you look at anything in depth, you are only believing things. Prove to me that 1+1=2. You can't, but it is something you believe in because you were taught that in school.

I am firmly routed in the world of science and do believe many things routed in our observations, but I can't say that any of it is "proof" of anything other than what I choose to believe.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

So this is a fear of yours, dying with no meaning...so you seek out something to give you a warm fuzzy about dying and come up with religion as the answer? Its not actually about faith, its about fear of dying in vain?

no again you are putting words in my mouth... and attacking my motives to try to discredit my arguement, thats not right...

that fact is NOT why i seek religion that has NOTHING to do with it, that is personal, MY BELIEFS....

now back to the subject....

it's because of that fact that i know my life does not end after death, otherwise i wouldn't exist in the first place...

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Just to clarify what I said about atheism being logically incorrect.

To make atheism valid, you must first accept that there is a possibility of a god existing and then disprove that the god exists. But you can't and, thus, it is logically flawed. The inverse works for theism as well, but at least (in my opinion) theism provides some value, even if it is a psychological effect only.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

That's a pretty poor attitude. If you look at anything in depth, you are only believing things. Prove to me that 1+1=2. You can't, but it is something you believe in because you were taught that in school.

I am firmly routed in the world of science and do believe many things routed in our observations, but I can't say that any of it is "proof" of anything other than what I choose to believe.

It is proven through experimentation. So for an experiment lets lay out 1 cookie, then to add one put another cookie beside it, now count the cookies, you end up with two. Experimentation just proved the simple scenario you used.

Experimentation with life and leading it for an unproven faith is just a little too scary of an experiment for me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Others may think living life without faith is too much of an experiment, we all have our own thoughts and beliefs, and while I might not agree I can respect your opinion.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Of course I agree, but many do need it. I'm sure you've heard of at least one story where someone "finds" religion and changes their ways.

i argee with most of what you say except this because if there is no god and you stop existing when you die then there is 0% sence behind morals

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

I would like a cookie!!!

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

i argee with most of what you say except this because if there is no god and you stop existing when you die then there is 0% sence behind morals

Then why didn't you just say so earlier???

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

This discussion was better when Jacob was gonna make a 5 channel amp.

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

It is proven through experimentation. So for an experiment lets lay out 1 cookie, then to add one put another cookie beside it, now count the cookies, you end up with two. Experimentation just proved the simple scenario you used.
Experimentation with life and leading it for an unproven faith is just a little too scary of an experiment for me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Others may think living life without faith is too much of an experiment, we all have our own thoughts and beliefs, and while I might not agree I can respect your opinion.

not true, there is a possiblily that there are really 3 cookies but you only can see 2 "the only thing undoubtable is that you can doubt EVERYTHING"

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

This discussion was better when Jacob was gonna make a 5 channel amp.

Agreed.