IMHO GOD > Evolution

[newusername 10+ year member]

It is proven through experimentation. So for an experiment lets lay out 1 cookie, then to add one put another cookie beside it, now count the cookies, you end up with two. Experimentation just proved the simple scenario you used.
Experimentation with life and leading it for an unproven faith is just a little too scary of an experiment for me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Others may think living life without faith is too much of an experiment, we all have our own thoughts and beliefs, and while I might not agree I can respect your opinion.

It is not proven! We, as humans, created a number line. Just because you observe something doesn't mean that it's necessarily proof and, especially when we're talking about whether there is a god or not, observing a series of events offers no "proof" of the existence or non-existence of a higher power.

You can't "prove" anything because we just believe what we choose to believe.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

see what you are saying make sense but i think you can go another level beyond that, and say that if there was nothing, (not even god) beyond space and time, before the formation of the universe, then there would be no formation of the universe...
it's impossible to think of time and space coming from nothing because it's impossible period.

Below this point you move on to opinion, and thats fine and dandy //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Anyhow... you made an assumption that you cannot make in the second part. You don't know that it is impossible. You can never prove it, nor can anyone else disprove it.

Maybe there was "something," but it wasn't time and space nor did it exist in any of those dimensions. Perhaps other dimensions of things we don't and can't understand. And you can call this what you like, be it God or something else. At this point we go to opinion again... these things cannot be proven, so you are free to believe what you will -- but don't give yourself the illusion that it makes any more sense than "something" appearing from "nothing," because it doesn't -- conservation of mass and energy are laws of physics in our universe as a 4D time-space, not laws governing "whatever existed before" (and again, the language is flawed as it implies time domain).

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

no again you are putting words in my mouth... and attacking my motives to try to discredit my arguement, thats not right...
that fact is NOT why i seek religion that has NOTHING to do with it, that is personal, MY BELIEFS....

now back to the subject....

it's because of that fact that i know my life does not end after death, otherwise i wouldn't exist in the first place...

Not trying to put words in your mouth man, just trying to understand.

How do you "know" that your life does not end after death, what besides faith, remembering what faith is, allows you to "know" death is not the end?

Not trying to be a prick, i'm open to try and learn from others in a way that I can understand and hold true myself. Maybe thats my dowfall for being so cynical, but how do I know that is wrong?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Then why didn't you just say so earlier???

off subject... why are you such an *******?

you argue about obviously stupid racial theories and constantly flame, rarely with a significant purpose, like in this thread i should die in a fire? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

i argee with most of what you say except this because if there is no god and you stop existing when you die then there is 0% sence behind morals

This angle is very complicated. I look at it as: yes, I do not require religion to have morals as I have my own in-born morals. But these morals are inhereted from my surroundings, which have been shaped by religion, so.....I see your point, but I can't go back far enough in time to determine whether the chicken or the egg came first.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

Maybe there was "something," but it wasn't time and space nor did it exist in any of those dimensions. Perhaps other dimensions of things we don't and can't understand. And you can call this what you like, be it God or something else. At this point we go to opinion again... these things cannot be proven, so you are free to believe what you will -- but don't give yourself the illusion that it makes any more sense than "something" appearing from "nothing," because it doesn't -- conservation of mass and energy are laws of physics in our universe as a 4D time-space, not laws governing "whatever existed before" (and again, the language is flawed as it implies time domain).

I like this

 

[CapzNCoilz 10+ year member]

first

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

I like this

So you have basically acknowledged that each is as viable as the other since none of it is truly provable.

Right?

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

Not trying to put words in your mouth man, just trying to understand.
How do you "know" that your life does not end after death, what besides faith, remembering what faith is, allows you to "know" death is not the end?

Not trying to be a prick, i'm open to try and learn from others in a way that I can understand and hold true myself. Maybe thats my dowfall for being so cynical, but how do I know that is wrong?

sry to appear defensive, but i took classes on fallacies in arguements and learned to decipher them... and that is one of them, no offence but most people will question a persons methods when they don't want to accept their theory, and can't prove otherwise... but anyway

again you can't REALLY know anything, but i know (resonably enough) that if i cease to exist when i die, then my life beared NO significance from my perspective, which makes it illogical that i even existed

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

It is not proven! We, as humans, created a number line. Just because you observe something doesn't mean that it's necessarily proof and, especially when we're talking about whether there is a god or not, observing a series of events offers no "proof" of the existence or non-existence of a higher power.
You can't "prove" anything because we just believe what we choose to believe.

That is all fine and dandy to a degree...if you lived your life full blown with that theory you would never survive day 1.

You have to decide how far your beliefs will lead you. Praying to some uncertain god is just a line I'm not sure I'm ready to cross.

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

of subject... why are you such an *******?
you argue about obviously stupid racial theories and constantly flame, rarely with a significant purpose, like in this thread i should die in a fire? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Because this subject has been argued ad nauseum on this forum. It certainly is not going to get any better with you leading the charge.

I have no idea what your problem is but apparently you just love getting your teeth kicked in on this forum.

And that statement about wanting you to die in a fire --- I was just being honest.

Beyond that, I am truly jealous of that Italian chip.

 

[duece212 5,000+ posts]

So you have basically acknowledged that each is as viable as the other since none of it is truly provable.
Right?

Exactly where I stand, its a leap of "faith" in what it is or isn't some people are willing to make and others aren't, I'm in the latter currently, just where I sit.

On that note I have to bow out of this debate, which is good, always like seeing others ideas/beliefs. But now I actually have to do some work....you know what they say about idle hands and the devil //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[cotjones 10+ year member]

This angle is very complicated. I look at it as: yes, I do not require religion to have morals as I have my own in-born morals. But these morals are inhereted from my surroundings, which have been shaped by religion, so.....I see your point, but I can't go back far enough in time to determine whether the chicken or the egg came first.

correct, but you can make inferrences to the best of your knowledge (and thats really all you can do)

so lets go back to the very begining and picture a time without god or morals where man was first gaining intelligence... if there was no morals at one time, then how would man develop them? what would cause a human to want to do the right thing or even recognize the right thing as (something) if not a higher power... there can be no formation of morals without a higher power to instill them, understand what i meen?

 

[DejaWiz 5,000+ posts]

That's a pretty poor attitude. If you look at anything in depth, you are only believing things. Prove to me that 1+1=2. You can't, but it is something you believe in because you were taught that in school.

I am firmly routed in the world of science and do believe many things routed in our observations, but I can't say that any of it is "proof" of anything other than what I choose to believe.

Proof means that a particular result has been observed and the test can be duplicated again and again with the same results. Like the following:

Earth's gravity accelerates a falling object at a rate of 9.8 m/s/s until terminal velocity is reached. That's a proven fact and anyone who has passed the third grade has likely participated in experiments and anyone who has passed the 10th grade has proven the this theory in an arithmetic class.

You see one apple sitting on the table. Then you see Johnny come by and set another apple next to it. Now you see the table has two apples. One plus one equals two. You and everyone else that have witnessed this knows for a proven fact that sitting on the table there is more than one apple, yet less than three. Doesn't matter if there is or is not a word for the number "two" in someone else's language/society/culture... they are aware of the fact that there are "two" apples sitting on the table.

Someone says there is an entity of such wondrous power, it created anything and everything of and in the entire universe. You ask to promptly see and talk to this entity to thank it for doing such a wonderful job. The person that brought the entity to your attention says that you can't see or talk to it, but you should believe it's there anyway. Why should you?

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Exactly where I stand, its a leap of "faith" in what it is or isn't some people are willing to make and others aren't, I'm in the latter currently, just where I sit.
On that note I have to bow out of this debate, which is good, always like seeing others ideas/beliefs. But now I actually have to do some work....you know what they say about idle hands and the devil //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Well, you are free to make your choice as you please the same way I am.

It just seems to me that if you can acknowledge that you don't know the answer, it would make more sense to look at all things objectively rather than making a leap of faith and choosing a religious vantage point that relies on the same, but inverted, concept that you disagree with.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif