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Honestly id love to see some of these people sit in the shoes of a mexican and be racially profiled every day of their life. It usually aint just one occurrence then it happens a while down. And I wana touch back on what audioholic mentioned earlier about having to show your id when a cop pulls you over. Like lazyrider said the only basis that a cop has to ask for a green card is to look at their skin and see that its brown. Its totally fine that they ask for some sort of id, its just the way it is. But to ask for a green card because your brown and thats suspicious, im sorry that seems racist.
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who said they would only ask for the proof just based on the color of skin?

How about language, attitude, how they are acting? strange behavior. What if they did pull over somebody pretending to be another mexican national coming over the border, acting like they are seeking a new life, but they really are al quida on a mission to pop a nuke plant or god knows what else? I am mexican and I dont give a shit if I get asked for a green card or whatever. I will play the game because I love my country and will support a safe border. Fuck all those that are so selfish to only think about the color of their skin. Fuck em, Id rather be secure then to have a wide open back door to trouble. This country is way to un secure for all the shit we get involved in.

 
The incentive to step forward and pay their fine and taxes is that they won't have to live in fear of being deported. How is making them pay a fine and pay taxes a reward? Let them do some jail time too if it makes you happy.
How are you going to track them down by the way?
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Why would they fear being deported? If you have your way, we'd yet again show the illegals we will do nothing of any real consequence to punish them for their crime.
The reward is allowing them to move to the front of the line in terms of citizenship. There are a lot of immigrants in this country, doing the legal method of obtaining US citizenship, that wish they could just pay some money and receive their citizen rights. We have a system for allowing immigrants to settle in this country, the illegals bypassed that system. You want to have them pay a fine, with money they earned while squatting here illegally, and bypass that system permanently.

If the roles were reversed, and one of us was caught living illegally in mexico (or most other countries in the world), we'd go to prison. Im not even suggesting that severe of punishment for our illegals, I just want them to have to go through the same legal procedures everyone else had to (after paying their fine). You can act like that's grossly unfair of me, but the reality is what Im asking for is extremely lenient compared to other country's consequences for the same offense.

Honestly id love to see some of these people sit in the shoes of a mexican and be racially profiled every day of their life. It usually aint just one occurrence then it happens a while down. And I wana touch back on what audioholic mentioned earlier about having to show your id when a cop pulls you over. Like lazyrider said the only basis that a cop has to ask for a green card is to look at their skin and see that its brown. Its totally fine that they ask for some sort of id, its just the way it is. But to ask for a green card because your brown and thats suspicious, im sorry that seems racist.
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I already told you Ive been profiled, by the police. And that was just one example. Profiling based on race, age, ***, etc... it happens, deal with it. If having to show your ID/green card to a law officer is too much loss of freedom for you, feel free to go back to your native country. But oh wait, even with having to show your green card here, this country still has MUCH more personal freedom than your native country, doesn't it? So again, I take the cries of abuse based on having to prove your identity with one huge grain of salt.

Lastly, if I get pulled over, Im required to show identification to prove who I am, where I living, and many times the cop even demands to know where Ive been and where Im heading to. But omg, its much too unfair that an immigrant needs to abide by these same rules, simply because he isn't white and therefore can use the race card? I'll say the same thing to you I told someone earlier, take some personal responsibility for yourself instead of blaming your skin color every time something unfair happens to you. Our lives are already full of unfair situations, compromises and security measures aimed at catching someone other than ourselves... you can live with this one too. Im not racist, but if every brown skinned person stood up and said they shouldnt have to provide identification because its racially unfair, Id say Id rather not have brown skinned people here then to have to live in a society that has too much personal anonymity to keep myself and my family safe and financially secure. If you dont like having to show your green card regularly, how about you start blaiming the people who are abusing the immigration system and creating the situation in which we HAVE TO ask, instead of blaming the real victims here -> the law abiding citizen who just wants everyone to pay their fare share.

 
Its amazing the 3 of you are so ready to discuss, and condemn, a law you obviously know nothing about. The law does NOT state cops can pull people over simply under suspicion of being an illegal immigrant. It DOES state the cop may only ask for proof of residency if 2 criteria are met: 1) a law was broken which brought the police attention to the individual, and 2) the police has reasonable suspicion of illegal residency (beyond they simply look Mexican). The law goes on to specifically state it prohibits police 'profiling' by way of questioning someone based on nothing more than ethnicity.
Frankly, I think its too lenient. I have to show proof of my identification (and residency) every time I open a bank account, write a check... hell just to rent bowling shoes. So go ahead and cry me a river that it would be unthinkable that a legal resident should have to prove their residency status just as regularly as the rest of us.

furbiesandbeans, while I respect your perspective and can appreciate the work that went into becoming a legal resident, and I agree our system should be reformed (for several reasons), but I disagree with much of your reasoning. You suggest your cousin made/makes $4.50 a day in Mexico. People throw these types of figures out all the time, to establish a comparison to our wages in this country. The problem with that is, you left out mentioning currency exchange. Im sure its not great considering the job you described, but how are we to know $4.50 American dollars a day is such an awful wage? Sure it sucks if you want to come to the US and buy something, but for Mexico it clearly fits their economy. The fact you have immigrated here means you know all about the currency exchange rate, yet you dont mention it when you talk about your poor cousin making $4.50 a day. Dont attempt to manipulate us into thinking conditions are worse in Mexico than they are. Mexico's living conditions aren't even the point of this discussion anyway.

Furthermore, there are plenty of bad living conditions throughout the world. It is not our responsibility to allow refugees from those places to come here secretly, live unofficially, and sponge off the society the rest of us pay for. Being poor is no excuse to break the law, nor does it mean we owe it to them to pay their way when/if they come here.

And yes, of course most illegals come here to make money, then go 'home'. They come here to live long enough that they can mooch enough money out of our economy to send home and make their life in mexico more comfortable. We pay for their new found comfort, us, the US tax payers. That same currency exchange makes it easy to save up what is considered a lot of money in Mexico. You seem to be implying them not intending to stay here permanently is some sort of reason to empathize with their side of this argument, when in fact all it does is emphasize these people are just here to use us for their own personal gain, and then leave as soon as they've suckled enough money out of our economy. Make no mistake about it, they are using us, and they know it.
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Justice Department poised to challenge Arizona immigration law - latimes.com

Read and be informed yourself. I guess having the federal government call this law unconstitutional must mean nothing. The basis of calling unconstitutional is in part, well, racial profiling.

At the same time, the government officials said, the department's civil rights section is considering possible legal action against the law on the basis that it amounts to racial profiling of Latinos who are legally in Arizona but conceivably could be asked to provide documents proving their citizenship.
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I've been stopped at check points before when i only had an H-4 visa. Of course i don't carry around my passport that says that. I showed them my driver's license and the officer said it wasn't sufficient to prove that I'm legal here. They let it slide this time, but they did warn me that i must carry my passport everywhere I go no matter what.

I'll put the currency exchange into perspective. He earned 50 pesos a day. 1 dollar = ~11 pesos. Thus 50 pesos = ~4.50 dollars. They have McDonald's down there, a big mac combo is around 65-70 pesos. New video games are around 800 pesos, thats around 72 dollars. A usual dinner at an OK restaurant is around 140 pesos. Going to the movies is 60 pesos. The list could go on forever, but I think that you get the point that $4.50 is nothing more than $4.50 here. Speaking from personal experience, everything is almost more expensive down there, except grocery foods. Of course im talking about same quality things. You can always go to the swap meet and get cheaper clothes, but they're lower quality.

I can agree that it's not our responsibility to take care of them, but it's not right to shut the doors on them. Not everyone is born into a rich family and with plenty of opportunities. Is it our responsibility to take care of new born babies with a disease? Not necessarily. Is it right not to help them? Of course it's not right. Should we help them even though it's not a responsibility? You bet.

I don't see how they're using us. The only way i can see that is by having their kids in public schools. They don't get welfare or anything similar. How could they get the benefits of having a ssn if they don't even have a legit one? They are working for their money, they aren't simply getting it from the us tax payers, except maybe when they work for them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 
I still support the law!
Obama, Mexican President Felipe Calderon criticize Arizona immigration law | cleveland.com

Calderon flatly rejected the Arizona law as discriminatory, saying it criminalized immigrants. He promised to work with the United States to resolve the complex issue.

"We can do so if we create a safer border, a border that will unite us instead of dividing us," he said.

Truth is it criminallized ILLEGAL IMAGRANTS again, since the federal government doesnt want to do its job protecting the borders.

America ****ed up by electing that wolf in sheep clothing, yet we all knew he did not have even a birth certifacate to validate his right to run for presidency.

The Harvard Law Record - Original Obama birth certificate unearthed in Harvard Law School library

I am disguested in our Government for giving him a long 20 second standing ovation when Calderón called for renewing the Assault Weapons Ban. His government needs to mind thier side of the border and control what they recieve.

Gun politics in Mexico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gun politics in Mexico have resulted in some of the strictest gun laws in the world. It is in many ways similar to the United Kingdom, except with much more severe prison terms for even the smallest gun law violations. On the other hand, possession of non-military-caliber small arms by citizens is largely a non-issue. Gun politics are thus not the major issue in Mexico that they are in the neighboring United States, since few Mexican citizens have any gun law difficulties.

But yet...

Mexico's Drug War : Pictures, Videos, Breaking News

Mexico's drug wars rage out of control | World news | The Guardian

So Maybe thats Americas fault right? Seems like if we lock down the border, then they wont have our guns and our business...
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great, another ****en American who cant spell for shit, yeah this law is stupid, and you racist ******s can continue to hate, cause they will still be here, and they will do a better job than you and your ****en degree.

 
Justice Department poised to challenge Arizona immigration law - latimes.com
Read and be informed yourself. I guess having the federal government call this law unconstitutional must mean nothing. The basis of calling unconstitutional is in part, well, racial profiling.

I've been stopped at check points before when i only had an H-4 visa. Of course i don't carry around my passport that says that. I showed them my driver's license and the officer said it wasn't sufficient to prove that I'm legal here. They let it slide this time, but they did warn me that i must carry my passport everywhere I go no matter what.

I'll put the currency exchange into perspective. He earned 50 pesos a day. 1 dollar = ~11 pesos. Thus 50 pesos = ~4.50 dollars. They have McDonald's down there, a big mac combo is around 65-70 pesos. New video games are around 800 pesos, thats around 72 dollars. A usual dinner at an OK restaurant is around 140 pesos. Going to the movies is 60 pesos. The list could go on forever, but I think that you get the point that $4.50 is nothing more than $4.50 here. Speaking from personal experience, everything is almost more expensive down there, except grocery foods. Of course im talking about same quality things. You can always go to the swap meet and get cheaper clothes, but they're lower quality.

I can agree that it's not our responsibility to take care of them, but it's not right to shut the doors on them. Not everyone is born into a rich family and with plenty of opportunities. Is it our responsibility to take care of new born babies with a disease? Not necessarily. Is it right not to help them? Of course it's not right. Should we help them even though it's not a responsibility? You bet.

I don't see how they're using us. The only way i can see that is by having their kids in public schools. They don't get welfare or anything similar. How could they get the benefits of having a ssn if they don't even have a legit one? They are working for their money, they aren't simply getting it from the us tax payers, except maybe when they work for them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif
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The Federal govt is calling it unconstitutional because this is turning into a states rights versus federal rights issue. The federal got has the same laws, it just doesn't enforce them like it is suppose to. I guess the fed's own law is unconstitutional too?
A driver's license is only not good enough because some states have taken it upon themselves to issue a DL without requiring proof of residency. If the federal govt did what it was suppose to, showing your DL would be adequate.

If your cousin barely earns enough to buy a big mac each day, that's an individual problem. If the average wage barely cover's a day's food, the society would break down quickly. Either way, as we've both said now, even if it were that bad, that does not put a burden on us to carry them on our shoulders.

Right to help them? Sure, if they came here legally, lawfully, and asked for help. They didnt. They snuck in and have forced us to help them willingly or not. That's a form of parasite behavior, not a mutually beneficial relationship.

They are using us because they drive on our roads, use our hospitals, our schools, our power grid, etc... and dont pay one dime of income tax towards paying for an of it. This country only has so many more opportunities than mexico due to the economy and infrastructure, which we bought built and paid for with tax dollars.

 
Its true field work is getting more automated all the time, but some of still isnt (or we wouldnt be discussing the farmers hiring illegals) nor is that the only example of job markets the illegal alien population has invaded.
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Honestly i think its our Gov't making it look how they want it to look, like they are "trying" to do this and trying to do that. You realize they say they are trying to keep mexicans out and illegals blah blah look up "Future Interstate 69" I live literally 2 mins away from a site where theyve started the crossovers. The Gov't is full of S**t, thats the way i see it. Theyre doing all they can to **** up money into the head of the pyramid that is our Gov't.

 
Honestly i think its our Gov't making it look how they want it to look, like they are "trying" to do this and trying to do that. You realize they say they are trying to keep mexicans out and illegals blah blah look up "Future Interstate 69" I live literally 2 mins away from a site where theyve started the crossovers. The Gov't is full of S**t, thats the way i see it. Theyre doing all they can to **** up money into the head of the pyramid that is our Gov't.
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Im not sure I want to delve into that deep of a discussion on our govt here, they are no doubt listening in by now.

 
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/sneaky.gif.7189749b3a3f769e8815b47e8ae87f88.gif

 
audioholic: I agree, not every false action against someone of color is going to be because of their color. But for the times where its obvious that you've been discriminated against, its tough. And yea we should get over it, but like I said, it happens alot.

And man I could go on and on about the govt. Sociology taught me alot:fyi:

 
Spend, spend, spend, and let's get bigger government and more taxes while we're at it. Let's control who can compete in the job market and who can't.

So say the "fiscal conservatives."

Admittedly, my idea of what to do would be a drastic change (ramp up globalization), but I'm reminded of what Goldwater said (where are the real Goldwater Republicans in this thread, by the way?):

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
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What I'm advocating is more liberty for everyone, not in-group and out-group thinking.

 
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