If JL is good but overpriced, at what price point should they be?

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

lol i am a liar? show me where i lied.. better yet why don't you answer one part of the original argument? if you can muster up that before i can grow a ZZ Top beard i might be impressed lmao

Ignoring you now, this is ridiculous. You responded with a sentence that made no sense whatsoever and piss poor grammar, 2 times in a row in fact and I was confused as to what the **** you were talking about. Honestly I thought I was at a disadvantage being all f'ed up on percocets after surgery but it seems like you are the one on some drug now..

 

[2critical 10+ year member]

I don't think the JL stuff is all that expensive //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Ignoring you now, this is ridiculous. You responded with a sentence that made no sense whatsoever and piss poor grammar, 2 times in a row in fact and I was confused as to what the **** you were talking about. Honestly I thought I was at a disadvantage being all f'ed up on percocets after surgery but it seems like you are the one on some drug now..

you lack the common sense of a retarded **** knocker.

if you can sell something for 139.99 and people buy it and like it as it offers good performance to price ratio why in the **** would you sell it for 90 on ebay?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

they cant sell what they produced so they sell it dirt cheap.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

No, the MTX is not better on paper. Thiele/Small parameters don't equate to large signal performance...in fact, they only describe how the driver can be modelled with a high-pass filter (ie. enclosure). If you saw the measurements I am talking about, you would agree by a long shot that the W7 is a better subwoofer than the 9500 "on paper".

Are you talking about the sensitivity? Can you show me?

That has nothing to do with how good something is...it has everything to do with how much value it holds.

Ok I agree but I mean it also affects whether or not the average consumer is going to buy it - unless as I mentioned you are a millionare.

I couldn't care less how much SPL a subwoofer is capable of making....125 dB is enough for me within the bandwidth a subwoofer typically covers on music.

Agreed! I thought someone would bring that up though.

But to say the W7 sounds like shit compared to anything....well, that's just uninformed.

Alright, but several JL owners and even some on this thread have mentioned they would take the w6 over the new line and that the w7 does in fact sound worse to them. Having heard both and the idmax I'd take it over all 3, and since the w7 costs way more than the IDMax and sounds worse than the older model, wouldn't you agree that it's a rip off? (unless you're going for cosmetic look - I am going to agree with everyone the w7 is sexy)

Why do people fall for the 3 ohm thing? You know that is the nominal resistance, right? The DC Re is 2.75 ohm...slightly lower than most S4 or D2 (in series) coils. Does your amp care what the "nominal" resistance/impedance is? No.

Agreed but what I was bringing up was the fact that this was a marketing ploy designed by JL to sell their slash series because the dealers can talk about R.I.P.S. and how the amps are designed for the subs and are sooooo much better than other amps that aren't a rip off, yada yada. The way they went about this, to me, is equivalent to the tactics the white van salesman employs - to fool customers and make them spend large dollars on a product(s) that is/are not worth that much.

JL Audio makes some of the absolute best products in the car audio industry and there is REAL engineering behind their designs. Their prices are higher than some competitors...that's true. But show me how many competitors come under that price with the same distortion levels and custom tooling done.

What do you mean by that? I know plenty of products that don't distort under large loads? They are just 1 company of many but they are charging 5x more than the others for the same performance because people know their name.

You people fall into the anti-JL Audio flock the same way the pro-JL Audio group does...you fail at looking at things objectively.

I pride myself on looking at things objectively - usually, but you are right, I can't look at this objectively because of JL and everything the company encompasses is part of what I hate in things/society/etc.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I pride myself on looking at things objectively - usually, but you are right, I can't look at this objectively because of JL and everything the company encompasses is part of what I hate in things/society/etc.

you are in sales? and you are in business?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif.. what do you do? look up the cost of what you are selling and charge them a nickle more? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

you are in sales? and you are in business?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif.. what do you do? look up the cost of what you are selling and charge them a nickle more? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Just stop - your personal attacks have failed and I am definitely not going to tell you what industry I am in, nor my company's name. I am a student as well and am not going for a degree in business although I could easily excel in that category. I am surrounded by people who commend me for my business skills so your personal attacks on a forum mean little...

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Just stop - your personal attacks have failed and I am definitely not going to tell you what industry I am in, nor my company's name.

only reason why you wouldn't is because if they read this they would hire someone with more business savvy.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

Yeah I have zero business sense because you said it. Great job //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif. Now tell me why. Looks like all you can is put together a poorly worded flame and ask for proof. You are comparing one of the most highly regarded SQ subs to a sub a lot of people say is poorer than its earlier counterpart (w6) and costs supposedly $1000. It's no contest why the IDMax is better. It sounds better, it costs 50% of the other sub's supposed "value" and it may take less power but its more sensitive and will go head to head and perform identical/better to the "$1000" speaker. You'd have to be dumbass to buy that driver under the circumstances.
Also, for shits and giggles: http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/headtohead/w7.cfm

Think what you want of me but you can't even justify the shit you say. Yeah I'm smarter than most shops - who are you?

i thought the dub7 has a shortening ring?

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

only reason why you wouldn't is because if they read this they would hire someone with more business savvy.

I am employed by a company and am the owner/operator of one. You're barking up the wrong tree einstein.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I am employed by a company and am the owner/operator of one. You're barking up the wrong tree einstein.

i bet not:

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

maybe a soon to be bankrupt company

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

i thought the dub7 has a shortening ring?

Nope. They used a 2.75" 2 layer voice coil instead of a 3" 4 layer as an alternative way to lower inductance.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Are you talking about the sensitivity? Can you show me?

Nope, not talking about sensitivity. Talking about linearity....keeping the motor force, suspension compliance, and inductance linear throughout the driver's stroke. This can be seen in impulse response measurements (seeing the fundamental and amplitude of any associated harmonics), swept distortion measurements, and Klippel or Dumax approximations.

Ok I agree but I mean it also affects whether or not the average consumer is going to buy it - unless as I mentioned you are a millionare.

I agree...we're not all rich...but if I buy a coffee grinder for $15 and you buy the same coffee grinder for $16, is my coffee grinder better than yours?

Agreed but what I was bringing up was the fact that this was a marketing ploy designed by JL to sell their slash series because the dealers can talk about R.I.P.S. and how the amps are designed for the subs and are sooooo much better than other amps that aren't a rip off, yada yada. The way they went about this, to me, is equivalent to the tactics the white van salesman employs - to fool customers and make them spend large dollars on a product(s) that is/are not worth that much.

I agree that the pairing of the "3 ohm" coil with their Slash series amplifiers is very convenient from a sales standpoint. That doesn't mean that the W7 or the Slash series amps are any less purpose or performance driven.

What do you mean by that? I know plenty of products that don't distort under large loads? They are just 1 company of many but they are charging 5x more than the others for the same performance because people know their name.

I honestly don't believe there are any products with the same performance in all respects at that price range. I will give you there are similar products for half the price, but there are none at that level.

I pride myself on looking at things objectively - usually, but you are right, I can't look at this objectively because of JL and everything the company encompasses is part of what I hate in things/society/etc.

The company encompasses real engineering genius with a desire to make high quality audio equipment....unlike MTX who intentionally mislead the customer with their "Head to Head" comparisons that hold no merit.

The crux of the audio realm is that everyone can hear something, but very few know what they are hearing. The same way many people can drive a vehicle, but have no idea what they are driving. That isn't me being an audiophile either...that is me saying that very few of us have the tools and understanding necessary to accurately dissect what we are hearing.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Are you talking about the sensitivity? Can you show me?

Nope. He's probably talking about motor and suspension linearity and driver distortion. The W7 makes the 9500 look like a flea market sub in those regards.

Ok I agree but I mean it also affects whether or not the average consumer is going to buy it - unless as I mentioned you are a millionare.

Yes, but value isn't the same as quality like you are implying. A Ferrari is wel beyond the budget of the average consumer, does that diminish its quality?

Alright, but several JL owners and even some on this thread have mentioned they would take the w6 over the new line and that the w7 does in fact sound worse to them. Having heard both and the idmax I'd take it over all 3, and since the w7 costs way more than the IDMax and sounds worse than the older model, wouldn't you agree that it's a rip off? (unless you're going for cosmetic look - I am going to agree with everyone the w7 is sexy)

Subjective "SQ" is one thing, measured linearity is another. A lot of people prefer the driver distortion of the W6 over the extremely linear response and extended bottom end of the W7. Most describe the "fat" nature of the sound from the W7 as what they don't like. That is the sound of retarded LFE. Seriously, very few drivers can play as low as the W7 does. Most people aren't used to that sound and don't like it.

Agreed but what I was bringing up was the fact that this was a marketing ploy designed by JL to sell their slash series because the dealers can talk about R.I.P.S. and how the amps are designed for the subs and are sooooo much better than other amps that aren't a rip off, yada yada. The way they went about this, to me, is equivalent to the tactics the white van salesman employs - to fool customers and make them spend large dollars on a product(s) that is/are not worth that much.

You still fail to grasp the reason for the 3 and 6 ohm coils I see. It has nothing to do with their amps and never has (it predates the amps by years, in fact). The average consumer just doesn't understand the whole thing so they provided specs with their amps to cover their subs. Besides, it would be totally stupid of them not to design their amps to complement their subs, even though it really doesn't matter. U.S. Amps used to provide 3 ohm power ratings for their amps and they didn't do the same power regardless of load. Does that mean that they were in on the whole conspiracy, too?

What do you mean by that? I know plenty of products that don't distort under large loads? They are just 1 company of many but they are charging 5x more than the others for the same performance because people know their name.

Got objective data to prove that? I didn't think so.

I pride myself on looking at things objectively - usually, but you are right, I can't look at this objectively because of JL and everything the company encompasses is part of what I hate in things/society/etc.

You say that you are in business and marketing but hate JL because they have successfully built themselves from a house brand to a household name based on performance of their product? So your goal as a business person is to lose money and drive your company to bankruptcy? Who do you work for so I can short their stock? The fact is that you're just another hater because you can't get JL at a discount like all the other brands that have to discount to make a sale. Has nothing to do with the product other than they CAN sell them at full retail because, oh I don't know, maybe they actually perform.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

pffft i can get PG RSD's for 79.99 plus 24.95 shipping! i dont need no jl's because some random person says the RSD's are the shit!

ok enough sarcasm..

on another note i talked to squeak about what drivers actually truly out spec and can outperform the W7 and they all retail for 400-1000 more than the w7....and or take alot more power to use them at full potential.

anyone that knows me and have seen my posts know i am not a huge JL fan but some of the reasoning behind some people's opinions is rather funny....