If JL is good but overpriced, at what price point should they be?

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I got a IDMAX for $300 warrantied. I have hertz MLKs for $500 warrantied.. Do you think I care about how "obscure" they are or do you think I'm just a good business person. Do you think I'm broke running some of the nicer shit or do you think I just picked the best stuff for the best price? Honestly it takes some research to pick the best products out and the fact is JL owners DON'T research.

do you want a cookie? what does you "buying" car audio have to do with how good of a business person you are? i am a big ID fan but to outwordly just say that an ID max you bought for $300 makes it better than a JL sub bought at retail means not a **** thing. did you audition all your speakers? could you see and physically hold and read the manuals of these products before you bought them?

What doesn't JL have in their line that doesn't compete with the products you purchased? what makes you think everyone's personal opinion and preference would match your own? a w6 or a w7 does'nt compete with an idmax? what if someone actually likes a set of C-5's or ZRs better than your Hertz? would you just in turn say "well it was only $500 bucks"?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Think about it. If you didn't have this forum, what would you have gone with? Some $500-$1000 rockford fosgates if you had the money? Maybe a Type R for some ridiculous price from best buy? Why? Cause you didn't know any better. Same thing for JL owners - sorry they are just uneducated about this shit. I'm not a "hater" i just have good business sense and i'm not a dumbass and throw away my money on overpriced shit. i'm 20 with money in the bank and my own business and i'm not poor - and the reason i'm not poor is because i dont buy stuff like JL gear from shops for $1000

let me see before there was even any internet service by me i was running ID ultra comp 3 horns and had a set of CD-2s as back up with a set of DVC 8's in my kick panels and a pair of 15" IDW's in the hatch. i had 3 modded SS amps and a modded IDX24 crossover to go along with it.

since you have such fantastic business sense what would you do if the internet provided the services you did for half as much? what if someone in your home town hired a gang of illegal immigrants to do the same work your business provides for 50% off?

also good to know that you aren't poor because of your car stereo.....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

part of how you get rich is how you use your money. do you spend it on shit that depreciates? or do you spend it on second hand shit that is just as good that is stable in value? all of the goods i buy i get at rock bottom prices with equal quality. it's causei know the power of research and the INTARWEBS. too bad JL owners don't //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

so you are saying that your stuff doesnt depreciate? i had a friend who bought a 500/1 brand new from a dealer for $449.99 and 14 months later sold it for 400 locally..he didnt even have to box it up lol..i bet the buyer knowing wtf it was had nothing to do with it huh?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

dude you are totally ignoring what i am saying, picking out tiny little points, aiming, firing, and missing.

my equipment and automobile says i'm not poor, stop pretending. i'm not saying it's CRAZAAAAZY expensive but i'm telling you i would not even CLOSE fit into the definition of "poor" by any stretch of the imagination. i have everything i want, and if i want something i research the shit out of it and buy the best thing i can. i get everything for such great prices that when i am done with my toys i can resell them for the exact same value or a slight loss. in some cases i have fiound such good deals that i can resell for a profit later on. i'm not bragging i'm telling you i have the good sense and the patience to preserve my money. something the average $3000 system jl owner can't seem to grasp.

yes the $300 idmax i bought is better than the "$1000" w7. no that's not an opinion - don't care what you reply the IDmax is the better driver end of story - there's lots of non subjective truth to that. the hertz would shit all over those POS JL coaxials/comps, you have to be a dumbass fanboy to buy those.

i am saying i pick good deals and therefore my shit doesn't depreciate nearly as hard. my dad owns a car dealership and i got my car so cheap it hasn't depreciated jack shit over the 4 years i've had it. i got it when it was almost brand new. i could probably resell it for the same price i bought it (if not more depending on how desperately someone wants a rare oem m-tech modded 328i)

again i am not trying to impress you, i am telling you i have the good sense to know when something is a stupid buy and what products are purchased by unresearched buyers. those tend to be things people think are high end but are basically "high end scams" they are there to divert their attention from true high end equipment that doesn't mark up profit nearly as monstrously as those other companies. go poll the average kid whats the best company that makes subs: RF or JL. why? they heard it from another kid. who heard it from another kid. who heard it from the local car shop that don't know anything but JL and RF. i'm telling you that now that we have the internet this ignorance should be stemmed but its not. its also annoying to see the same people who do no research put all their money in the crap and act like they're the shit. whooptiy doo you just wasted a shitload of money, great job dumbass. cookie. is it my business? no? are they still a dumbass? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

dude i probably would've gone with 2 w6s if i never heard of the internet, cause i was never exposed to the reality of the world and just to the tiny bubble where JL is god of dumbassland. thank you for the intarwebs.

i am all for people researching before they buy. it's the stupid JL mentality that prompts people to buy white van scam speakers, and honestly JL kind of reminds me of that because the "MSRP" is all myth. the speaker / amp is worth nowhere near that and is obtainable far cheaper and the quality is not up to par with the price.

also yes this is a dead horse and i revived a dead topic mybad, i will refrain from posting further. feeling like a troll

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/popcorn.gif.32dd9e22fd77e77bc3c907062768fcd2.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

dude you are totally ignoring what i am saying, picking out tiny little points, aiming, firing, and missing.
my equipment and automobile says i'm not poor, stop pretending. i'm not saying it's CRAZAAAAZY expensive but i'm telling you i would not even CLOSE fit into the definition of "poor" by any stretch of the imagination. i have everything i want, and if i want something i research the shit out of it and buy the best thing i can. i get everything for such great prices that when i am done with my toys i can resell them for the exact same value or a slight loss. in some cases i have fiound such good deals that i can resell for a profit later on. i'm not bragging i'm telling you i have the good sense and the patience to preserve my money. something the average $3000 system jl owner can't seem to grasp.

where did i imply you were poor?

yes the $300 idmax i bought is better than the "$1000" w7. no that's not an opinion - don't care what you reply the IDmax is the better driver end of story - there's lots of non subjective truth to that. the hertz would shit all over those POS JL coaxials/comps, you have to be a dumbass fanboy to buy those.

truth be told not everyone thinks that way . i see no facts to back up your theory

i am saying i pick good deals and therefore my shit doesn't depreciate nearly as hard. my dad owns a car dealership and i got my car so cheap it hasn't depreciated jack shit over the 4 years i've had it. i got it when it was almost brand new. i could probably resell it for the same price i bought it (if not more depending on how desperately someone wants a rare oem m-tech modded 328i)

what does this have to do with car audio? stay on topic

again i am not trying to impress you, i am telling you i have the good sense to know when something is a stupid buy and what products are purchased by unresearched buyers. those tend to be things people think are high end but are basically "high end scams" they are there to divert their attention from true high end equipment that doesn't mark up profit nearly as monstrously as those other companies. go poll the average kid whats the best company that makes subs: RF or JL. why? they heard it from another kid. who heard it from another kid. who heard it from the local car shop that don't know anything but JL and RF. i'm telling you that now that we have the internet this ignorance should be stemmed but its not. its also annoying to see the same people who do no research put all their money in the crap and act like they're the shit. whooptiy doo you just wasted a shitload of money, great job dumbass. cookie. is it my business? no? are they still a dumbass? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

when they buy it from a local dealer they are supporting the industry. just because you get a $850 dollar pair of speakers for $500 doesnt make it right. over the long haul if everyone does this rest assured there will be less highend anything to buy. like the point i was making and somehow flew over your head is that car audio is a business like any other and when the MAJOR part of the market is gone there wont be anything truly high end about it. could your fathers car dealership survive if another dealership opened up selling the same cars as your father for 1000-500 less per car?what if the garage services were 50% less on top of that? how long would your father be in business?

dude i probably would've gone with 2 w6s if i never heard of the internet, cause i was never exposed to the reality of the world and just to the tiny bubble where JL is god of dumbassland. thank you for the intarwebs.

noone says jl is godly but they are far from shit

i am all for people researching before they buy. it's the stupid JL mentality that prompts people to buy white van scam speakers, and honestly JL kind of reminds me of that because the "MSRP" is all myth. the speaker / amp is worth nowhere near that and is obtainable far cheaper and the quality is not up to par with the price.

 

must mean something because if i were a betting man JL probably sells more than zapco,hertz and ID combined FROM DEALERSHIPS. the way you come across at getting these items seems to be alot more of a "white van deal" to me being you got them via the internet.

 

just in case you couldnt follow i replied in bold.

if i may ask what type of business do you run? can't be sales related as some of what i said would have sunk in.

PS dont read into this like it is an attack. somehow you are reading into this like i am saying you are poor ...in no way am i i am just trying to MAKE YOU SEE wtf is happening. if car audio shops were such rip offs and making sooooo much money how come there arent retail made billionaires in it? lol

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

must mean something because if i were a betting man JL probably sells more than zapco,hertz and ID combined FROM DEALERSHIPS. the way you come across at getting these items seems to be alot more of a "white van deal" to me being you got them via the internet.
just in case you couldnt follow i replied in bold.

if i may ask what type of business do you run? can't be sales related as some of what i said would have sunk in.

PS dont read into this like it is an attack. somehow you are reading into this like i am saying you are poor ...in no way am i i am just trying to MAKE YOU SEE wtf is happening. if car audio shops were such rip offs and making sooooo much money how come there arent retail made billionaires in it? lol

the dudes who run our shop are millionares //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif i dunno about yours maybe its different where you are but they have cornered the market here. (and flooded it with JL and RF) when i take my zapco there to be plexi'd they'll probably think i'm bringing in a Crunch. that's what bothers me, ignorance. it's the reason why i am anti-organized religion and anti a lot of things you don't care about that i wont list off but its just my personality.

as for my background it is indeed in sales and customer service. i understand what you're saying but the internet, ecommerce in general, renders a lot of of the "retailers" you are describing useless. a lot of markup and marketing dollars are now being taken out of the equation. middlemen are now hightech and price their shit competitively. there is no real proof that because quality is being offered at realistic prices now it puts people out of business. it puts corporate greedsters like JL and the newly spoiled RF out of business. globalization and ecommerce is changing everything and i think a lot of how we look at the world is still so traditional and not in keeping up with the fact that we're hitting 2008 now. i don't believe it works as simple as you describe it but we all have our ideas of how economics, sales and trade should work and although im sure we'll have a healthy discussion i really dont feel like stimulating my brain right now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif just got out of surgery and im all doped up on percocets we'll talk sometime im sure you are an interesting person

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

the dudes who run our shop are millionares //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif i dunno about yours maybe its different where you are but they have cornered the market here. (and flooded it with JL and RF) when i take my zapco there to be plexi'd they'll probably think i'm bringing in a Crunch. that's what bothers me, ignorance. it's the reason why i am anti-organized religion and anti a lot of things you don't care about that i wont list off but its just my personality.
as for my background it is indeed in sales and customer service. i understand what you're saying but the internet, ecommerce in gneeral, renders a lot of of the "retailers" you are describing useless. they have become a thing of the past, there is no real proof that because quality is being offered at realistic prices now it puts people out of business. it puts corporate greedsters like JL and the newly spoiled RF out of business. globalization and ecommerce is changing everything and i think a lot of how we look at the world is still so traditional and not in keeping up with the fact that we're hitting 2008 now. i don't believe it works as simple as you describe it but we all have our ideas of how economics, sales and trade should work and although im sure we'll have a healthy discussion i really dont feel like stimulating my brain right now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif just got out of surgery and im all doped up on percocets we'll talk sometime im sure you are an interesting person

they made their millions selling car audio? hmmmm i know of 1 that is pretty well off and supports his way of living but he became a millionaire a different way and if it werent for home audio and home automation he would have left the business. even so i know millionaire and billionaire car dealership owners, home builders and developers. ( i guess they are ripping us off too:laugh

For a manufacturer to gain a solid retail base (which is what they want) they must protect the retailer. they give them areas in which to sell and for the most part try to keep the number of retailers with the same product at a reasonable number to help negate price wars. 99% of your NIB memphis,JL, Kicker, RF that gets sold via the internet below map pricing shouldnt be there. all it is is a large dealer selling it sideways, a struggling rep trying to recoup sales figures, or a distributor trying to pad sales. To sell at near normal dealer costs you are either a rep or buy enough quantity to reciprocate a large distributor discount. once that dries up (meaning they sell less too stores) the prices wont go down they will go up. the net is already peaking sales so when the larger majority of car audio retailers is out of business so will alot of the manufacturers....and if not since the quantity of sales will dramatically drop the overall price will at least go up. since the mid to late 80's the car audio market has been getting smaller. in it's hay day for what you got you paid a heck of alot more for it then than you do now. with a growing population the trend isnt going it the right direction that is for sure.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif take away the fact that people wont have a place to look at the new products in person and actually see them work the internet sales will die down. why? if you cant see it hear it or touch it at any time before you buy it do you really think as many people will buy?

also what percentage of the market do you think true high end audio products have?

you have also not answered my "what if" questions ( a car dealership moves into your town selling the same cars your father does for $1000-$500 less and the internet providing what your business does at 50% off or a local who does the same thing locally as you for 50% off) and went straight to the ecommerce:laugh:

i dont see any sense into going into this any farther since you cant even answer 1 of the strikes against your ideal.

 

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

they made their millions selling car audio? hmmmm i know of 1 that is pretty well off and supports his way of living but he became a millionaire a different way and if it werent for home audio and home automation he would have left the business. even so i know millionaire and billionaire car dealership owners, home builders and developers. ( i guess they are ripping us off too:laugh
For a manufacturer to gain a solid retail base (which is what they want) they must protect the retailer. they give them areas in which to sell and for the most part try to keep the number of retailers with the same product at a reasonable number to help negate price wars. 99% of your NIB memphis,JL, Kicker, RF that gets sold via the internet below map pricing shouldnt be there. all it is is a large dealer selling it sideways, a struggling rep trying to recoup sales figures, or a distributor trying to pad sales. To sell at near normal dealer costs you are either a rep or buy enough quantity to reciprocate a large distributor discount. once that dries up (meaning they sell less too stores) the prices wont go down they will go up. the net is already peaking sales so when the larger majority of car audio retailers is out of business so will alot of the manufacturers....and if not since the quantity of sales will dramatically drop the overall price will at least go up. since the mid to late 80's the car audio market has been getting smaller. in it's hay day for what you got you paid a heck of alot more for it then than you do now. with a growing population the trend isnt going it the right direction that is for sure.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif take away the fact that people wont have a place to look at the new products in person and actually see them work the internet sales will die down. why? if you cant see it hear it or touch it at any time before you buy it do you really think as many people will buy?

also what percentage of the market do you think true high end audio products have?

you have also not answered my "what if" questions ( a car dealership moves into your town selling the same cars your father does for $1000-$500 less and the internet providing what your business does at 50% off or a local who does the same thing locally as you for 50% off) and went straight to the ecommerce:laugh:

i dont see any sense into going into this any farther since you cant even answer 1 of the strikes against your ideal.

You should be a lawyer or something man.

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

they made their millions selling car audio? hmmmm i know of 1 that is pretty well off and supports his way of living but he became a millionaire a different way and if it werent for home audio and home automation he would have left the business. even so i know millionaire and billionaire car dealership owners, home builders and developers. ( i guess they are ripping us off too:laugh
For a manufacturer to gain a solid retail base (which is what they want) they must protect the retailer. they give them areas in which to sell and for the most part try to keep the number of retailers with the same product at a reasonable number to help negate price wars. 99% of your NIB memphis,JL, Kicker, RF that gets sold via the internet below map pricing shouldnt be there. all it is is a large dealer selling it sideways, a struggling rep trying to recoup sales figures, or a distributor trying to pad sales. To sell at near normal dealer costs you are either a rep or buy enough quantity to reciprocate a large distributor discount. once that dries up (meaning they sell less too stores) the prices wont go down they will go up. the net is already peaking sales so when the larger majority of car audio retailers is out of business so will alot of the manufacturers....and if not since the quantity of sales will dramatically drop the overall price will at least go up. since the mid to late 80's the car audio market has been getting smaller. in it's hay day for what you got you paid a heck of alot more for it then than you do now. with a growing population the trend isnt going it the right direction that is for sure.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif take away the fact that people wont have a place to look at the new products in person and actually see them work the internet sales will die down. why? if you cant see it hear it or touch it at any time before you buy it do you really think as many people will buy?

also what percentage of the market do you think true high end audio products have?

you have also not answered my "what if" questions ( a car dealership moves into your town selling the same cars your father does for $1000-$500 less and the internet providing what your business does at 50% off or a local who does the same thing locally as you for 50% off) and went straight to the ecommerce:laugh:

i dont see any sense into going into this any farther since you cant even answer 1 of the strikes against your ideal.

didnt i tell you im heavily dosed on medication...? wtf i told you i dont even feel like having this convo because its too much for me. i half-read that and still think you're wrong

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

You should be a lawyer or something man.

why? i have seen read 100's of dealer agreements, still read 12 retailer mags, get mecp, mera updates story logs, still get the 12volt delivered (never even ordered it!) i have not been in the industry in almost 2 years. i have been a customer, a competitor, a salesman, an installer, a shop owner, a rep and a distributorship owner. it is a bit tougher to make it than most of these guys realize.

i see alot of guys crying about prices and thinking they know how to change the industry. oddly enough you show them point blank the holes in their theory they try to call you out on a brainstorm they have vs real world experiences + they dont even know what you have to do as a simple dealer //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif. sell under map locally and you have another dealer in town you will be getting a call from your rep (he won't be telling you "GOOD JOB!" either). how many people do you think would buy this stuff if noone could go out and see it/listen to it?

lets look at this from another perspective. lets say pioneer last year sold 5 million deh 1xxx cd players to dealers and distributors last year. now lets say this next year they only sell 3 million and half of the dealers and distributors go out of bussiness. what do you think it would do to the following year? you already know you will have half the production and with less volume in sales the individual prices will go up. with less sales means less $ to help develop new products. with less and less on your investment what would be the reason to innovate?

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

didnt i tell you im heavily dosed on medication...? wtf i told you i dont even feel like having this convo because its too much for me. i half-read that and still think you're wrong

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif:laugh://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif:crying:

what proffit margin does your business operate from?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eek.gif.771b7a90cf45cabdc554ff1121c21c4a.gif

 

[Pyro_By_Nature 5,000+ posts]

I've read a few more of the posts.How have you kept your business alive livin? You obviously have ZERO business sense in the first place (although you like to think you do).BTW: On the subject of IDMAX > W7, prove it. Where is your SOLID proof that the ID max surpasses the W7 of the same size in every way. Until then, it IS an opinion.

I like how all these people who now have the internet think they're smarter than most shops //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Simply put, many of you are brainwashed.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Simply put, many of you are brainwashed.

Mostly just ignorant.

 

[livinlegend 10+ year member]

I've read a few more of the posts.How have you kept your business alive livin? You obviously have ZERO business sense in the first place (although you like to think you do).BTW: On the subject of IDMAX > W7, prove it. Where is your SOLID proof that the ID max surpasses the W7 of the same size in every way. Until then, it IS an opinion.
I like how all these people who now have the internet think they're smarter than most shops //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Simply put, many of you are brainwashed.

Yeah I have zero business sense because you said it. Great job //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif. Now tell me why. Looks like all you can is put together a poorly worded flame and ask for proof. You are comparing one of the most highly regarded SQ subs to a sub a lot of people say is poorer than its earlier counterpart (w6) and costs supposedly $1000. It's no contest why the IDMax is better. It sounds better, it costs 50% of the other sub's supposed "value" and it may take less power but its more sensitive and will go head to head and perform identical/better to the "$1000" speaker. You'd have to be dumbass to buy that driver under the circumstances.

Also, for shits and giggles: http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/headtohead/w7.cfm

Think what you want of me but you can't even justify the shit you say. Yeah I'm smarter than most shops - who are you?