Idea: A a better way to learn car audio and help keep forums annoy-free

[geolemon 10+ year member]

I need your opinion - I think you'll like what I'm possibly creating, so please read.
It's your best interest that I'm shooting for. Please leave your opinion below.

There have ALWAYS been the stupid questions on forums, Facebook, etc... ALWAYS been the "is this any good" and "should I buy this" threads, and ALWAYS the "Search the forum, idiot" responses. Both the newbies and experienced have valid reasons for frustration.

Yeah, there's good argument for "Search, moron!". Yeah, there's dozens of "stickies" on all the forums or Help 101 here - Yeah, if someone read through those, even on just one forum... but come on. That's a LOT of reading.


I'm trying to build a better way... something more 2020 than a book or blog:

• Something interactive - Maybe an app (I can program). Example: a picture of an interior, and you tap somewhere to jump to that topic.
• Something categorical - Subs/boxes, component sets, SQ concepts and issues, car electrical, etc. Whatever you tapped.
• Something progressive - For each topic, layers: Basics (brief/generalizations), then if interested in more - intermediate, then advanced.
• Wiki-ish - meaning, if some info was thought to be inaccurate, it could be flagged for me to correct it - or even group moderated like a wiki.
• A toolbox - meaning, I could embed DIY tools (think: WinISD, crossover design, test tones), links to videos (like Car Audio Fabrication channel vids on YouTube), links to online "best of breed" discussions (forum agnostic) - etc.

Goal being: make it easy to get a newbie started, and also make it easy to dig deeper for experts - or to become one.


Before I start trying to write, I want to know if I should bother. Please:

a) Do you (or did you) wish something like this existed?
b) What part jumps out at you? (good or bad)
c) What would you want in a DIY car audio resource?
d) Do you consider yourself a newbie, mid-level, or experienced DIYer? (or pro - installer, sales, etc)

Thanks for all replies.

Click to read more...

 

[geolemon 10+ year member]

(NOTE I'm asking around the forum communities, one at a time, so you may see a similar post elsewhere)

About me, if anyone cares about "why me":

I've been a moderator at several forums through the '00s, including the long-defunct CarAudioForum.com (RIP). I'd hate to look at my registration date even here... But I really haven't been on the forums in a long time. Kinda nice to be back.

Over the years I've grown from an amateur to a professional and back, a fabricator, amateur/semi-pro loudspeaker engineer (who at one point was fortunate enough to license XBL^2 via Dan Wiggins)... helped produce a few enthusiast products through salad-bar contract manufacturers who could create the alignments we wanted...
Always a hobbyist first, always wanting to help DIYers first. The technical scrutiny in these forums doesn't exist in the shops, and I believe in pushing and progressing.

I've also always been an IT guy with a data/BI specialty... but for a time, I was seduced out of a good IT role to become manager of a large audio retail shop (they agreed to match my salary). During that time, I had our staff (and me) trained personally by Bryan Schmitt (Mobile Solutions) - and one of my personal high points was organizing and attending a SQ training seminar that we hosted in the shop from Scott Buwalda (Hybrid Audio) himself.

I've been to 10 CES's in a professional capacity, three SEMA shows, and always (for better or worse) passionate about both the artistic and the deeply technical aspects of car audio - good design has both.

I'd like to share and spread stoke and motivation, so that's a core goal here.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

You're referring to CBT or LMS type training. Problem is, how are you going to get people to actually read it? Find it? Put the time in? I commend your motives here, but I don't want you to waste your time and be disappointed here.

What would you consider a "success" when you're done?

A video series accompanied by a wiki might work out well, provided it's adopted. People spend hours on YouTube when they find something interesting. Making it interesting is the hard part. A lot of the physics stuff is boring.

 

[geolemon 10+ year member]

More my personal reaction to the suggestion of writing a book.
Me:
"No one reads books these days. Everyone has ADD these days and expects instant access to everything, spoon-fed at their level of knowledge"

So - not a training, but a resource. In fact the concept of "chapter order" I think isn't well suited to car audio enthusiasts. Everyone learns in a different order, based on interest. Experts in one area are novices in another. One book doesn't suit all.

So I started rethinking "book".

Why couldn't an IT data integration consultant / mobile audio expert create a simple NoSQL document store, capped with an rethought navigation, to unify text and tools by topic, along with a new transition-able vertical of "expertise"?

I really think it won't be much more difficult than writing a traditional book. Possibly easier, since I want more granularity than "book chapters".

The rest is just presenting it better, augmenting it better, wrapping it in an app or page in a way I think book readers (and even web pages) have really failed to do.

 

[Slo_Ride 5,000+ posts]

Wtf is this garbage?

Did you read it? Of course you didn't.

 

[los33]

More my personal reaction to the suggestion of writing a book:
"No one reads books these days. Everyone has ADD these days and expects instant access to everything, spoon-fed at their level of knowledge"

So - not a training, but a resource. In fact the concept of "chapter order" I think isn't well suited to car audio enthusiasts. Everyone learns in a different order, based on interest. Experts in one area are novices in another. One book doesn't suit all.

So I started rethinking "book".

Why couldn't an IT data integration consultant / mobile audio expert create a simple NoSQL document store, capped with an rethought navigation, to unify text and tools by topic, along with a new transition-able vertical of "expertise"?

I really think it won't be much more difficult than writing a traditional book. Possibly easier, since I want more granularity than "book chapters".

The rest is just presenting it better, augmenting it better, wrapping it in an app or page in a way I think book readers (and even web pages) have really failed to do.

As far as the IT side of it this would require a HUGE amount of graphical design and coldfusion or now daily html5 made web application.

Each section would have to be seperated by basic to expert based on knowledge or possibly questionaire that tallys the knowledge level.

Also a application based approach in java for android would be simple and easy, but to do it all for free and have the will to continue in the thousands of lines of code to make it happen i highly doubt you will succeed.

Also viper (viper car alarms) has done the same for all its installer for a step to step topic learning guide. But that its self is useful but still requires hands on experience.

You would have to touch on installation, electrical, mechanical speaker aspects, automotive data systems on basics just to get people on the same level as most competition people joining nowadays.

 

[geolemon 10+ year member]

Good points, definitely worth responding to each- apologies in advance for the length

As far as the IT side of it this would require a HUGE amount of graphical design and coldfusion or now daily html5 made web application.

Fair point on the graphic design aspect, but think "simplicity" not "complexity". Intuition is the goal - less, not more.

As mentioned, I'm a 25 year plus IT consultant specializing in BI and general data integration experience - I'm not kidding when I say a document store database with a Kafka-esque lid on it would be refreshingly simple compared to my 9-5er. It's part of why I think I'm uniquely personally positioned for this.

That being said - I will be doing peer reviews at all levels here. I truly do work with some of the best in the industry, and I even have some of my closest relationships with IT architects (where I'm physically located), IT QA, and enterprise security teams, because I need to stay on top of IT standards.

Each section would have to be separated by basic to expert based on knowledge or possibly questionaire that tallys the knowledge level.

Yes and no-
This concept is my reaction to suggestions that I write a book. So it would be me writing material intentionally at three different levels. I can do that, because I have been doing that:

Besides just being all over the industry (including retail) since the early 90's - I can speak basics, at a newbie level. But the basics I do describe to newbies (for example: pick your enclosure first, then find a sub that suits it) is advantageous, I believe... and concise. But "Beginner level".

...and in sharp contrast to the discussions when, for example, I have the honor of invites to David Clark's DLC labs to measure some of my sub designs personally on his DUMAX machine. Or, think AES whitepapers. Or my own personal amusement at the high-end audio section, where I enjoy passive-aggressively steering conversations into the technical to see if the $200,000 speaker's rep knows what they are talking about, or if the product itself is just a money grab. "Advanced".

In between that, though, are most of the discussions on the forums - my own posts tend to be lengthy to either back up what I'm describing, or to foster additional thought that might send someone in a new direction. I consider that "intermediate level".

...and here's primarily exactly where there's newbie frustration on how to start, what to ask - as well as intermediate-enthusiast frustration on where to fill in their own gaps in knowledge while beating down the newbies who are steering the conversation back downward... so both end up just surfing the forums day after day, soaking up whatever might float by on any given day.
It's always hard to know what you don't know.

In terms of an author who can scale for different audiences - as an IT consultant and enterprise project lead, this is true in my daily IT projects, where I'm more or less always "dumbing-down" difficult IT concepts for the business teams that I work with. As an IT project lead, weekly and semi-weekly meetings include both business and IT staff - I get my practice daily, with projects all over the USA.
Audio topics scale similarly - you write for your audience.

Also a application based approach in java for android would be simple and easy, but to do it all for free and have the will to continue in the thousands of lines of code to make it happen i highly doubt you will succeed.

Lego block thinking, just like the content. It's not one monolith, it'll even be approached more like an agile project than a waterfall project, if you are familiar. If not, that just means modularity, with staggered deployment. I can prototype this with a simple NoSQL database, one or two articles, and a simple API to start with. I can then build it out on the sofa as my fiancee watches "Say Yes To The Dress", one article at a time. When it's time to polish up that front end, I can replace the API - or maybe the front end will use it.
Agile means I could even publish it before it is fully complete, just to get some of it out there and gauge interest.
Lego blocks.

As far as monetizing, making it worth my time - for me, sharing is fun, I'm a car audio geek. I have an IT career... this is a passion project. It'll leverage lots of what I've already shared. But you are right - you do want any author or site/app owner to be motivated, to push them through the difficult stuff, to reward them for making it great rather than "good enough".
There's lots of opportunity to build things like that in when it's time, stuff that would be win/win rather than annoying ads.
In fact, I'm planning to link or embed YouTube videos that already exist. It's content, it augments articles I want to write, and could send enough pennies my way to make it worth the effort.

Also viper (viper car alarms) has done the same for all its installer for a step to step topic learning guide. But that its self is useful but still requires hands on experience.

It's possible they've updated it in the past 8 or 10 years since I've seen it, but Directed's tools are really aimed at (and limited to) professional installers who work at retailers who are Directed partners (we used to sell Directed). Last I knew, it was specifically product technical manuals (mainly for security/starters, bypasses and integrations) and vehicle wiring references... and not available to the public.
Despite my experience, my alliance is to the DIY hobbyist... especially the aspiring ones.
Freeing up this info, that Directed and others are trying to keep OUT of the hands of DIYers, part of their strategy of forcing them to authorized retailers.

You would have to touch on installation, electrical, mechanical speaker aspects, automotive data systems on basics just to get people on the same level as most competition people joining nowadays.

Yes! This. Exactly. All the discussions that are... somewhere... on these forums.
"Search, moron... we talked about that 3 weeks ago... no I won't help you find it..."

ALL that would be difficult to navigate, tedious, if it were a book... And would turn it into a huge monolithic project.
Does anyone remember "choose your own adventure" books? I'm probably the only one here who was a 1980s kid...

 

[los33]

Good points, definitely worth responding to each- apologies in advance for the length
Fair point on the graphic design aspect, but think "simplicity" not "complexity". Intuition is the goal - less, not more.

As mentioned, I'm a 25 year plus IT consultant specializing in BI and general data integration experience - I'm not kidding when I say a document store database with a Kafka-esque lid on it would be refreshingly simple compared to my 9-5er. It's part of why I think I'm uniquely personally positioned for this.

That being said - I will be doing peer reviews at all levels here. I truly do work with some of the best in the industry, and I even have some of my closest relationships with IT architects (where I'm physically located), IT QA, and enterprise security teams, because I need to stay on top of IT standards.

Yes and no-
This concept is my reaction to suggestions that I write a book. So it would be me writing material intentionally at three different levels. I can do that, because I have been doing that:

Besides just being all over the industry (including retail) since the early 90's - I can speak basics, at a newbie level. But the basics I do describe to newbies (for example: pick your enclosure first, then find a sub that suits it) is advantageous, I believe... and concise. But "Beginner level".

...and in sharp contrast to the discussions when, for example, I have the honor of invites to David Clark's DLC labs to measure some of my sub designs personally on his DUMAX machine. Or, think AES whitepapers. Or my own personal amusement at the high-end audio section, where I enjoy passive-aggressively steering conversations into the technical to see if the $200,000 speaker's rep knows what they are talking about, or if the product itself is just a money grab. "Advanced".

In between that, though, are most of the discussions on the forums - my own posts tend to be lengthy to either back up what I'm describing, or to foster additional thought that might send someone in a new direction. I consider that "intermediate level".

...and here's primarily exactly where there's newbie frustration on how to start, what to ask - as well as intermediate-enthusiast frustration on where to fill in their own gaps in knowledge while beating down the newbies who are steering the conversation back downward... so both end up just surfing the forums day after day, soaking up whatever might float by on any given day.
It's always hard to know what you don't know.

In terms of an author who can scale for different audiences - as an IT consultant and enterprise project lead, this is true in my daily IT projects, where I'm more or less always "dumbing-down" difficult IT concepts for the business teams that I work with. As an IT project lead, weekly and semi-weekly meetings include both business and IT staff - I get my practice daily, with projects all over the USA.
Audio topics scale similarly - you write for your audience.

Lego block thinking, just like the content. It's not one monolith, it'll even be approached more like an agile project than a waterfall project, if you are familiar. If not, that just means modularity, with staggered deployment. I can prototype this with a simple NoSQL database, one or two articles, and a simple API to start with. I can then build it out on the sofa as my fiancee watches "Say Yes To The Dress", one article at a time. When it's time to polish up that front end, I can replace the API - or maybe the front end will use it.
Agile means I could even publish it before it is fully complete, just to get some of it out there and gauge interest.
Lego blocks.

As far as monetizing, making it worth my time - for me, sharing is fun, I'm a car audio geek. I have an IT career... this is a passion project. It'll leverage lots of what I've already shared. But you are right - you do want any author or site/app owner to be motivated, to push them through the difficult stuff, to reward them for making it great rather than "good enough".
There's lots of opportunity to build things like that in when it's time, stuff that would be win/win rather than annoying ads.
In fact, I'm planning to link or embed YouTube videos that already exist. It's content, it augments articles I want to write, and could send enough pennies my way to make it worth the effort.

It's possible they've updated it in the past 8 or 10 years since I've seen it, but Directed's tools are really aimed at (and limited to) professional installers who work at retailers who are Directed partners (we used to sell Directed). Last I knew, it was specifically product technical manuals (mainly for security/starters, bypasses and integrations) and vehicle wiring references... and not available to the public.
Despite my experience, my alliance is to the DIY hobbyist... especially the aspiring ones.
Freeing up this info, that Directed and others are trying to keep OUT of the hands of DIYers, part of their strategy of forcing them to authorized retailers.

Yes! This. Exactly. All the discussions that are... somewhere... on these forums.
"Search, moron... we talked about that 3 weeks ago... no I won't help you find it..."

ALL that would be difficult to navigate, tedious, if it were a book... And would turn it into a huge monolithic project.
Does anyone remember "choose your own adventure" books? I'm probably the only one here who was a 1980s kid...

I was born in 92 the year pc's made there debut, anyway hopefully you succeed in your goal to generalizing car audio for the public. Make an all in one book to all needs.

Never met you but atleast we share something in common lol, car audio geek and am a dell engineer now that i was moved down from lead in dell cyber security/defense department as they are now closing and selling it off.

 

[los33]

Thought you were in the machining business?

That was back near 2012-13.. finally let the small business run its self and jump into the career i wanted.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

My 2¢

Most "Newbs" asking for assistance are doing so because they have no clue. When they get met with "Use the search button moron" ...It isn't new to us but to them it is. To have some of their first interactions with car audio be negative kinda *****.

Some new guys heard their buddies bass and want some bass too... nothing more, nothing less. So they ask how they can get some bass... for as little as possible sometimes.

Some guys really like loud car stereos and want to build a full system... but their eyes are bigger than their wallet and or they don't have realistic expectations.

Some people were in to car audio way back when... (You know, when Soundstream had god like amps) and now they have money and want the good stuff... but no longer know what is good and why the stuff that was great, is garbage now.

Most people would like to know what brands are Budget, Mid-Level and Top Shelf.

Everyone wants a realistic answer to "What can I get for $xxx.xxx" and don't necessarily want to hear "Save up some more cash and get Flardnard Audio"

Some people know what they want, there is no changing their mind and just want some knowledge on the best way to use what they have from people who do this for a living so they can use that info.... to do it themselves.

 

[geolemon 10+ year member]

Thanks for the thoughts.

Some new guys heard their buddies bass and want some bass too... nothing more, nothing less. So they ask how they can get some bass... for as little as possible sometimes.

Some guys really like loud car stereos and want to build a full system... but their eyes are bigger than their wallet and or they don't have realistic expectations.

Some people...

Amen, amen, and amen.
That's actually a HUGE part of this idea. I hope you'll agree:

There's fewer people today who are true enthusiasts, fewer people who would read a whole book, fewer people who want to be experts. The cynic in me says "this is just a continuation of the industry-wide decline that has been going on for nearly the past 20 years". It's why I don't want to write a traditional book.

So with something like this - that newbie who just wants bass can tap a picture of a trunk, tap a picture of a subwoofer box, and get to a newbie-level article on how to pick a sub box. And hopefully also read an article on how to pick a sub that works in "their" box. Maybe they click the picture of an amp and learn the basics of an amp and how to pick one.

And maybe - maybe - they say to themselves "Hey that was easy and I learned something... what else can I learn?" and they poke around some more.

Most people would like to know what brands are Budget, Mid-Level and Top Shelf.

Everyone wants a realistic answer to "What can I get for $xxx.xxx" and don't necessarily want to hear "Save up some more cash and get Flardnard Audio"

This is a tricky topic...
Part of me - most of me, even - wants to say "Good info is brand-agnostic." Any company can make one great product, and one crap product. Or product line.
I'd like this book to help people know what to look for.

Another part of me, however, did design products for some enthusiast-based brands that allowed hardcore DIY enthusiasts to find something resembling the very idealistic discussions that can happen on these forums. To me it just makes sense to suggest (or compare) $200 high linear Xmax subs that could compete with a $1000+ JL W7.

I wouldn't entirely be opposed to giving examples of products that meet the criteria of an article... For example, in an article describing the difference between sealed box subs vs. vented box subs and their different specs to look for, having some examples of each.

You are making me think - maybe it's valuable to include examples from both a mainstream brand and an enthusiast brand, if I decide to include examples.

Some people know what they want, there is no changing their mind and just want some knowledge on the best way to use what they have from people who do this for a living so they can use that info.... to do it themselves.

I think this format serves those people - they can click and learn what they want, bite sized nuggets, one topic at a time. And for each, if they read the basics and have that down pat, they are probably going to be motivated to reach up a level for the intermediate version of that article.

And I think to your point - the more people do learn, the more they might find their stubborn way either is correct... or maybe is a little too rigid, that maybe there's a reason not every product is the same.

Forums really are better places when there's better DIY discussions going on. It's an idealistic goal, yes - but I'd like to get this to a point where it were so good it becomes ubiquitous, where it could actually make an impact like that.

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

When I first went to college, vocabulary was one of the first things I had to learn. Not words exactly but more like terminology. Had I not, I would have been lost for the most part. Making things simple to understand for the layman is VERY important.

Here is an example:

What do you need for bass? You need a source of music (Like a head unit) - a power supply (an alternator charged battery) - an amplifier (a mono amp) - a subwoofer box (an enclosure)- a subwoofer (low frequency driver)

You follow? A chain of events with different terms for each item kind of thing. This may not be the best example, just one of my thoughts lol. I like where you want to go though.