I Think I Need a Truck Already!!!

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

wording is everything when its on a forum einstien.


the btl example further demolished you poor wording. and prooved your saying that a clipped signal is an "overpowering signal" came outa your ***.

i used and example, and i followed it by saying that if i touched that battery of and on rapidly that is exactly what a clipped signal is do you think the sub will take it for very long?

i am rubber and you are glue whaever you say bounces off me and sticks to you...

No, wording is not everything, ideas are. As it stands, you are content to ignore the ideas and attack the wording. It shows a sever lack of ammunition for your argument.
The btl example shows you lack even basic math skills, as I showed.

Now you are trying to change your battery example to touching it on and off rapidly. First off, the fact you are changing your story is an admittance you were incorrect the first time. Second, you still dont have a clue what you are talking about, as simply touching the wires to the batt would make the cone excurt in one direction only. Is that what happens when you clip your amplifier? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif keep guessing kid, maybe you'll hit on something that is actually correct eventually.

I continue this not in any silly attempt at educating you. Clearly you are not interested in understanding the situation and facts correctly, only that you portray yourself as correct. If you cant dazzle them with data, baffle them with bullshit, right? I just wish your self confidence matched your knowledge, then maybe we'd actually have a discussion worth continuing.

Why dont you get your expert Hawaiian professional buddies like realbleach to come tell us how your little theory on clipping and DC is right, and Manville Smith of JL Audio is wrong? Because you cant. Because you are ignorant and have nothing but misguided examples and semantical arguments about wording. I see right through you. And judging by the comments in this thread, so does everyone else here.

Aloha.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

if i am missing your point and you are unable to express it your presence on an informational subject is really a waste of energy.

If not my words, then by all means, dispute the quote of Manville Smith. Go ahead Mr Smart Guy who has a come back for everything, put your money where your mouth is and tell us all how Manville is wrong. We are all waiting.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[yama168 10+ year member]

right from hawaii, good one! theres a reason people like you are on an ISLAND, so the rest of society never really has to put up with you

But answer this why do all you mainlanders pay good $$$ to come visit our island then??? oohh yeah so that when you leave your vaulables in the rental car its easier for us to steal and afford all this car audio we be buying //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

aloha

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

i guess my wording on the 12volt battery wasnt clear then huh so you feel my theory is wrong sound familiar ******** ?

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

If not my words, then by all means, dispute the quote of Manville Smith. Go ahead Mr Smart Guy who has a come back for everything, put your money where your mouth is and tell us all how Manville is wrong. We are all waiting.
//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

it is wrong clipping is dc and that is that....when ever the signwave from an osciliscope stays flat IE a squre wave its dc, i dont give a shit what moron posts what on the internet.

like i said about 5 times if I reproduce the square wave with a battery dose that not make it a squre wave very similar to what a clipped wave looks like.

audioholic youve been owned a LOOOOOONG time ago so just shut up.

oh wait the post count is the new iq.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

it is wrong clipping is dc and that is that....when ever the signwave from an osciliscope stays flat IE a squre wave its dc, i dont give a shit what moron posts what on the internet.

Well this has been fun, but its time to end this chirade. You are a pig headed ignoramus who doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut and just learn. Well buddy boy, now is that time.
Let me quote a few 'morons on the internet' for you, you dumb fuck.

Manville Smith, one of the top developers for YEARS at JL Audio (maybe you've heard of them?) in continuation of his comments, that were already quoted earlier in this thread...

"The fact that a signal is clipped does not make it inherently damaging... if the average power of the clipped signal is low it won't ever damage a speaker. At higher power levels, the fact that a clipped signal carries more average power over time can result in damage.

 

The fact that tweeters have low inductance, do not employ low-pass filters and have small, delicate voice coils makes them more susceptible to damage from a clipped signal than a woofer or mid.

 

Does that make sense?

 

It just points out that the old statement of an amp that is too small will damage speakers more than a more powerful amp is entirely dependent on the use of each amp... if you clip both amps to the same extent, the more powerful one will blow speakers faster.... but it is possible to make a small amp operated into clipping produce as much average power as an unclipped larger amp (even though the peak power is greater on the big amp).

 

When you clip an amp you not only increase distortion, you also compress the dynamic range of the signal... the distortion isn't what kills the speakers (except tweeters in some cases)... it's the dynamic range compression that really does it" - Manville Smith

Or this from Mark Eldridge (AutoSound 2000, guru, knows more in his middle finger than you ever will) had this to say...

"Too much power is the ONLY thing that will destroy a well built speaker. Too high a peak power can cause it to move too far, and cause mechanical failure. Too much RMS power for too long will cause thermal failure.

 

A clipped signal will not damage any speaker, if it is at a level low enough so that the heat can be dissipated, and it doesn't move far enough to mechanically damage it.

 

Take a square wave source signal from any number of test CDs, and play it through your system at a low volume. If you have a power supply on the system, you can play that 100% clipped signal indefinitely, and the system will never miss a beat.

 

As Rob said, a square wave is not made up of positive and negative DC components. The true makeup of a square wave is the fundamental frequency signal, combined with all of the harmonics of that fundamental.The combination of the many different, but related, sine waves results in a square wave.

 

You can prove this for yourself by running a low frequency square wave signal into a variable crossover, and look at the output on an oscilloscope. with the crossover bypassed, the square wave will be perfect. But, engage the low pass filter, and begin bringing it down towards the fundamental frequency, and the wave shape begins to look like a slightly clipped sine wave. If you turn the crossover point all the way down to the fundamental frequency, the scope will display a perfect sine wave. " - Marl Eldridge

Both from this thread, in which you would learn a great deal if you read it (but we both know you wont): http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/showthread.php?t=4332&highlight=clipping+wave

like i said about 5 times if I reproduce the square wave with a battery dose that not make it a squre wave very similar to what a clipped wave looks like.

The problem is, you seem to think that just because a wave form is flattened, that it is DC. No pardon me, the problem is, that you dont have any idea what defines DC voltage, and you are too stubborn to admit it.
So Mr Nobody from Hawaii, tell us how you know better than Manville Smith and Mark Eldridge what clipping is, and is not. Clearly you think your knowledge is greater than mine on the subject, go ahead and tell everyone how you know more than these two gentlemen as well.

oh wait the post count is the new iq.

And seeing as your post count is 57, that sounds about right to me. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif:laugh://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

right read your own history on this thread you friggen tool. your the one who disagreed wit the above..... the whole point of this is that 800 watt amp + 2 btls and a moron white kid = abused subs.

now after flexing that tiny brain and copy and pasteing whn you have actual evidience iof what you said then come to me who are you? besides another cracker that thinks they are so smart, ive got my certifications you **** and thats all i need all your shirping means nothing to me espeicially when its all bull shit. no matter how many people you try to quote when the sign wave goes flat it be comes constat, and that is dc...or direct current now go rest you over worked peanut of a brain..... and come with actuall knowledge. chump. you coppied and pasted stuff from 2 people in the industry whil i have read several books on electricity, and have spent countless ours with an osciliscope, manually diaognosing thousands of electrical faults in cars and have more ours behind my theory than you could imagine so take your second hand information and go play woth yourself....

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

A1 Engine Repair 05/10/2007 Pass

A4 Suspension and Steering 11/09/2006 Pass

A5 Brakes 11/09/2006 Pass

A6 Electrical/Electronic Systems 05/08/2007 Pass

A7 Heating and Air Conditioning 11/14/2006 Pass

THER ARE MY CERTS TOOLS WHERE ARE YOURS...

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

right read your own history on this thread you friggen tool. your the one who disagreed wit the above..... the whole point of this is that 800 watt amp + 2 btls and a moron white kid = abused subs.

Feel free to show me exactly where I disagreed with what I quoted.
Actually the whole point of this is to explain the FACTS about what happens, and why, when you clip your amplifier.

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no matter how many people you try to quote when the sign wave goes flat it be comes constat, and that is dc...or direct current now go rest you over worked peanut of a brain..... and come with actuall knowledge. chump. you coppied and pasted stuff from 2 people in the industry whil i have read several books on electricity, and have spent countless ours with an osciliscope, manually diaognosing thousands of electrical faults in cars and have more ours behind my theory than you could imagine so take your second hand information and go play woth yourself....

Wow, that's alot of reading, and theory, and experience... for someone who doesn't even understand what DC is, or how its defined.
Frankly, I think you are lying. Anyone with half your claimed experience would know that defining a waveform must include a time interval. Saying that the waveform is flat at some point does not equal DC.

"when is a signal DC? It's DC if it remains constant longer than any time constants of the system ... electrical, thermal or mechanical. A squarewave at 20Hz won't qualify ... there's at least one electrical high-pass filter with a lower corner frequency than the 20Hz fundamental, and the thermal time constants of the sub's motor & coil are most likely longer than 50msec as well." - http://www.audiogroupforum.com/csforum/showthread.php?t=4332&page=6&highlight=clipping+wave

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And that big thing you've supposedly spent hours behind, apparently learning nothing beyond 'is the wave round or flat', is called an o-s-c-i-l-l-o-s-c-o-p-e. Since I know you are so big on using the proper wording. Im just surprised, in all those hours, and all those books read, that you never learned to spell the darned thing. Its almost as if you are lying. *gasp*

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Here's my favorite part: "you coppied and pasted stuff from 2 people in the industry whil i have read several books on electricity, and have spent countless ours with an osciliscope, manually diaognosing thousands of electrical faults in cars and have more ours behind my theory". - you

It must be amazing to consider yourself more knowledgeable than Mark Eldridge and Manville Smith.

----------------------------------------------------

now after flexing that tiny brain and copy and pasteing whn you have actual evidience iof what you said then come to me who are you?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wow.gif.23d729408e9177caa2a0ed6a2ba6588e.gif No comment necessary, self-burn already inflicted.
Aloha.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Oh, and I am quoting other people because you didn't like how I worded things, remember? First my wording sucks, now Im stupid for quoting experts in the field. Truth is, nothing would be good enough for you, because that would mean admitting ignorance on your part. And you are not about to do that, you have too much of your pathetic ego tied up in this argument to ever let that happen. I pity your lack of character, and your lack of ability to admit you are wrong.

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

whatever audioholic you can keep your theory's...ther are always several conflicting theories in life and you fail to notice how that applies here, as you can see from their write ups the to admit that many people who are respcted in the industry disagree with what they are saying. if it was so cut and simple it would be a law and not a theory, i aplaud you for sticking to what you say and i comepletely disagree with it althoug i do see how it could be misinterprited. learn and move on, you cannot even suggest that those 2 people are the absolute bottom line in any scenerio. Oh wait you are, im allowed to disagree and i have seen it with my own eyes, how things work with multiple scan tools data logs o-scopes, and other machines. So whatever you have to say will just be disregarded.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

whatever audioholic you can keep your theory's...ther are always several conflicting theories in life and you fail to notice how that applies here, as you can see from their write ups the to admit that many people who are respcted in the industry disagree with what they are saying.

My theories? Which theories are you referring to? The theory that 1600 watts is not greater than 4000 watts? Or the theory that a squared wave exhibits more power to the speaker due to having more area under the waveform? Or the theory that a waveform cant be defined while ignoring time? Or maybe my theory on how to spell that gadget you say you are so familiar with? One of those theories? I see right through you. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
I assume by 'write ups' you are referring to the people I quoted, and their data. Feel free to point out where they say they have respected peers in the industry who disbelieve these facts. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

You didn't like my own wording. You dont like the experts I quote to back up my 'theories'. Yet you provide no quoted experts, and your only theory is that a squared waveform is DC, because you and your vast experience say so. Well my experience at reading people tells me you are a kid who thinks he can act like an expert and lie about his experience because he is hiding behind the anonimous nature of the internet. Your credentials, and your knowledge, do not match.

if it was so cut and simple it would be a law and not a theory

WTF are you talking about now? lol Your aren't even trying to make specific points anymore, just trying to sound smart. If you were really trying to make a valid point, rather than blathering on about nothing, you would at least tell us which theory you are referring to. Or, are you making the point that I must be wrong because there is no "Newton's Law of Thermodynamics and Clipped Sine Waves"? Putz.

you cannot even suggest that those 2 people are the absolute bottom line in any scenerio. Oh wait you are, im allowed to disagree and i have seen it with my own eyes, how things work with multiple scan tools data logs o-scopes, and other machines.

No, of course those two leading designers and educators in the field aren't the absolute bottom line answer to this debate, you are. You and your steering/suspension certificate.
Oooohhhh wait he said scan tool data log... he must know what the fuck he's talking about. Right? Something like that?

I guess those "other machines" were gizmo's that were just too hard to even attempt to spell, so you just paraphrased for us. All that technical mumbo jumbo probably would have gone over our heads anyway.

So whatever you have to say will just be disregarded.

Ive found it works well to stick your fingers in your ears, and hum loudly.

i aplaud you for sticking to what you say and i comepletely disagree with it althoug i do see how it could be misinterprited.

And I applaud you on your high tolerance to humiliation. Most people would have slinked away by now. But not you, you seem to enjoy being humiliated. Way to hang in there buddy.
Aloha.

 

[kalaeboy]

alright so I see what everyone is saying about there's no such thing as overpowering and underpowering as those terms are misleading. We use those terms for lack of a better term. Because we can run 1 watt with a clean signal to a 2000watt RMS sub all day and it will not heat up... ok we get it. The main idea here is sending a clipped signal through a sub will heat the voice coils up faster. We get that clipping is essentially harmonics playing simultaneously... but when you put those harmonics side by side on a graph... they create what looks like a plateau on the top of the graph which an oscilliscope sees as a square wave. Essentially when you apply this signal to a sub, that square wave or "more average power over time" generates more heat this is what most of us call Underpowering. What I call overpowering is feeding a sub ungodly amounts of power where the mechanical limits is reached and builds up heat enough to kill a sub. I believe someone got it right on the money. Power doesn’t kill subs. Heat does. Two types of signals play a factor. Some of you argued that playing a clipped INPUT signal is harmless… this is true. But play a clipped OUTPUT signal to your subs voice coil and it is potentially dangerous. o6salterego is saying that dc voltage is a flat line where amplitude remains constant. which is true. A tones harmonics will create this illusion of a flat plateau. But everyone is saying that a signal cannot be DC in that it still has a peaks a valleys like a sine wave. Essentially clipped signals is just PEAKING LONGER. In this plateau is where heat is generated. So we can safely say that ACDC is what kills subs.

 

[kalaeboy]

Hawaiians are not stupid.

 

[06salterego 10+ year member]

see next post...