I need help Choosing subs SI MAG vs tc 3000

[bigbassman Premium Member]

xmax, and more specificially.. xmag.. have alot do with with linear low end output in a sealed box..

but if you say to hell with distortion.. and just care about the wang.. then...

for instance, if driver one has an xmag of 24mm one way, but xsus is 50mm

and driver two has 38mm of xmag, and 40mm xsus

driver one could be just as loud SPL wise.. due to overshoot...

then of course you need to look at the power levels required to get a woofer to xmag as well..

Loyd L.

 

[Volvo Slapper 10+ year member]

I have a question, is the lms-4000 louder than the tc-3000 and the Mag??? What about the phoenix Gold TI Elite??

 

[mega1268 10+ year member]

Hey i was just wondering did TC drop the xmax on the tc-3000

• Super powerful 250 ounce ferrite motor

• 1000W RMS, up to 2,500W dynamic

• Polished aluminum cone

• Detachable cast aluminum powder-coated basket

• 3" aluminum voice coil

• 30mm xmax (one way)

• Optimized for high excursion capabilities

• Available in 10", 12" or 15" models

• Starting at just $319

i could of swore it was 34 or 36 mm 1 way. Any1 else remember that?

 

[diatribe 10+ year member]

You're right, I believe it was 34mm.

I suspect that they wanted to make there other drivers more attractive by making the 3000 look a little less so.

 

[mega1268 10+ year member]

kinda does help try to sell 2000's cause u know alot of peope all they look at is xmax.

 

[Remotia 10+ year member]

Has nothing to do with selling the 2k's.

The 34mm xmax was a bit ambitions relative to our extremely linear LMS-4000. Eventually we're going to do away with all xmax figures because no one can agree on a standard and its useless until one is formed. With conventions such as our linear motor it makes it even more difficult. I think what we are going to switch over and simply disclose the coil winding height and gap height and then provide cms and bl graphs and let the experts be the judges. Our philosophy is to hide nothing about the driver because there is no BS about them. Xmax really doest tell you how loud a driver is. It will however reveal some idea of how well it can handle lower frequencies, but IMO, driver loudness should be a ratio of SPL at a given distance with a THD constraint. After all, subwoofers are designed to play bass, the louder they can do that with the least side effects (THD) the better. Right now, our LMS-4000 is the loudest subwoofer we have under that convention. The 3k and 2k are the runners up but will be louder overall when considering a high THD threshold (or none at all).

 

[chozen1 10+ year member]

Xmax does play a large role in low freq extension with a sealed box. In SPL the boxes are sometimes tuned as high 60 hz and if they are playing a frequency around the tuning of the box the sub may not be moving that much at all and alot of the output is from the huge port.

exacly

remember folks the bigger the box the less xmax it need to make high spl numbers

because its all box dependant

and for the record the mags will not displace more air(cone area x Xmax in 1 direction)

but i think at a higher freq the mag will beat a tc3000(could be a reason y the mag can play higher freqs well). but in the lower frequecy i think the tc3000 will have the mag in that region(hence the low fs and high power handling)

 

[IamDeMan 5,000+ posts]

The mage is just **** sexy. That alone is reason enough to buy. I love it's classic style. I woul;d love to hear one.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Has nothing to do with selling the 2k's.
The 34mm xmax was a bit ambitions relative to our extremely linear LMS-4000. Eventually we're going to do away with all xmax figures because no one can agree on a standard and its useless until one is formed. With conventions such as our linear motor it makes it even more difficult. I think what we are going to switch over and simply disclose the coil winding height and gap height and then provide cms and bl graphs and let the experts be the judges. Our philosophy is to hide nothing about the driver because there is no BS about them. Xmax really doest tell you how loud a driver is. It will however reveal some idea of how well it can handle lower frequencies, but IMO, driver loudness should be a ratio of SPL at a given distance with a THD constraint. After all, subwoofers are designed to play bass, the louder they can do that with the least side effects (THD) the better. Right now, our LMS-4000 is the loudest subwoofer we have under that convention. The 3k and 2k are the runners up but will be louder overall when considering a high THD threshold (or none at all).

Here's another angle for you to look at...

How many live concerts have you been to where all of the music was played completely flat, there were no peaks, and there were no valleys?

I'll go and venture to say None.

The only reason you have the idea of 'ruler flat response' is due to the guys who created the concept of 'sound quality' and it has to be 'flat' on the RTA in order for you to have 'sound quality'....if it aint flat you aint got shit.

How many ghetto jammers have you road around in? They are just nasty...wide open the whole time as high as the volume will go THD out the yang...and the guys LOVE it... Some people like a certain amount of THD...and it is pleasing to their ears.

If i would put a set of the LMT subs in one of those cars they'd be like 'wtf this sounds like crap...its slow...it doesnt 'pound' at all'....

No two people hear the same things...personally i'm not a huge fan of xbl^2 topology woofers...nor the LMT...it just doesn't sound real to me (dry/not live...the sound they reproduce simply doesnt make me feel like i'm back at the concert) . But you have others who hump the two topology's like none other because "flatter is better".

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Some people like a certain amount of THD...and it is pleasing to their ears.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Remotia 10+ year member]

Here's another angle for you to look at...
How many live concerts have you been to where all of the music was played completely flat, there were no peaks, and there were no valleys?

I'll go and venture to say None.

The only reason you have the idea of 'ruler flat response' is due to the guys who created the concept of 'sound quality' and it has to be 'flat' on the RTA in order for you to have 'sound quality'....if it aint flat you aint got shit.

How many ghetto jammers have you road around in? They are just nasty...wide open the whole time as high as the volume will go THD out the yang...and the guys LOVE it... Some people like a certain amount of THD...and it is pleasing to their ears.

If i would put a set of the LMT subs in one of those cars they'd be like 'wtf this sounds like crap...its slow...it doesnt 'pound' at all'....

No two people hear the same things...personally i'm not a huge fan of xbl^2 topology woofers...nor the LMT...it just doesn't sound real to me (dry/not live...the sound they reproduce simply doesnt make me feel like i'm back at the concert) . But you have others who hump the two topology's like none other because "flatter is better".

Even harmonics are somewhat acceptable, odd harmonics are not. Transducers are designed to replicate what they are told to from tweeters on down which does not including coloring the sound. The best imaging a subwoofer can provide is the most linear and cleanest bass possible with little distortion. Many people like THD because the subwoofer is overall louder. It’s not the THD they necessary like, but the loudness of the bass. I can promise if you play the linear and non linear at the same volume, you would not choose the non-linear unless you disagreed with the actual sound recording. Don't blame the speaker at that point, blame the recording studio. Most concerts sound absolute horrible to me relative to a linear response low distortion home theater or stereo system. There is no comparison. And FYI, we do make concert speakers for other companies, and they are very linear have low distortion. Go to a Coldplay concert next year, tell me what you think?

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

For the record... I like the way XBL^2 woofers sound (had a Brahma 15) and I like the Mags, as I currently run one and find it to be one of the best sounding woofers out there. I don't really push the THD limits of any woofer with over ~16mm of x-max or so, though, as I enjoy my bass to be at level with the other frequencies and don't so much enjoy losing my hearing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I was also a big fan of the cool "little" 10" underhung driver I got from TC that I ran for a while. Wonder if they have any more laying around... kinda wish I still had it to play around with in the house.

 

[nismboy6986 10+ year member]

In my opinion the whole "sound quality" thing is a lil pointless since its subjective. once u get to the level of super woofers no one can really agree on what sounds better or not. imo a ruler flat response on the rta is undesirable since human don't hear on a flat response anyway. i think most of us can handle a subwoofer setup that does 140's but could we still sit in a car with a horn tweeter setup that did 140's