I need help Choosing subs SI MAG vs tc 3000

[mega1268 10+ year member]

whoops this is gonna start a fight

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

whoops this is gonna start a fight

I dont see why?

Kyle and I are quite capable of having a civil conversation.. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Loyd L.

 

[Remotia 10+ year member]

LOL, this may cause some issues, but what the hell, I dug myself into a whole with that comment and it deserves an explantion.

I hope this doest offend anyone, but since these are public numbers, I'll just throw out my expertise about em.

RL-p

Qts: 0.207

Qes: 0.226

Qms: 2.470

Si mag

Qms 4 3.7

Qes 75 0.39

Qts 0.45 0.35

Ok, lower Qts is due to a softer suspension, slight more motor force, and softer and smaller rubber surround, see how the CMS is higher on the RL-p. These differences make little affect towards output and more or less have to do with what size box the speaker will be happier in. The RL-p will work better is smaller box and the mag is slightly larger, that's all that really means. Not much to do with output or sound quality. I think we can agree no?

RL-p

Fs: 23.433 Hz

Si mag

Fs 30.2 22

Lower Fs means it just resonates at a lower frequency, the RL-p will be more efficient at 24 where the mag will be more at 30. This has very little effect on overall output and in fact by the time you design a linear alignment around the Fs, the effects of it are not so much important. People tend to think lower Fs means deeper bass. Completely false at the end of the day.

RL-p

Ls: 4.060 mH

Lp: 4.473 mH

Si-mag

Le 3.5 3.7

This is inductance, the is not an Le measurement for the RL-p, but it can be estimated to be a tad lower than the 4.06# given for Ls. This is very similar to the Mag, and inductance is something you want to minimize as it reduces output but typically at higher frequencies (such as midrange drivers). It has less effects down low and for very deep bass can pretty much be neglected. But it is something you want to attenuate. Inductance can be lowered by using shorting rings.

Mms: 177.9 g

Mms (grams) 228

The RL-p is actually lighter which helps sensitivity a bit.

Cms: 259.2 u

Cms 121

This is the difference in suspension, the RL-ps is 1/2 as stiff, this will account for the difference in the Vas and the lower Q. Big deal… more or less box alignment issues.

SS: Bl: 20.70 T*m

SS: 3.7

SI: BL 18.35

SI: 3.5

BL^2/Re tells you the effective motor force at small signal input. The RL-p is 108 and the mag is 96, the difference is virtually negligible and in fact in this case the RL-p came out on top, but I wouldn’t even consider this a difference. The motors are equally as strong, and guess what, they are the same size too, surprised? You shouldn’t be.

SS RL-p SPL: 88.81 dB

SI Mag: 87.7

Again, here is an almost negligible difference. The SPL@1w is almost the same with the edge to the RL-p again, but it could go both ways depending on uncertainties. I wouldn’t even consider this a difference. In this case because the Bl came out higher and the moving mass was lower, the RL-p takes the SPL@1w advantage, but I’m sure on average they are closer perhaps with the mag maybe being on top. Many samples would have to be taken but my point is , who cares, this is so close it makes no audible difference.

Based on the gap height and coil winding height, I believe the xmax’s are indicial with the edge going to the Si mag by 1mm or so, Again, this difference that means nothing.

The coils are almost the exact same size and have about the same amount of wire, which means they both aprox have the same power handling. I think SS rats their coils at 700 watts and Si at 900 watts. In real life the difference between 700 watts and 900 watts is less than 1dB and RMS is bs anyway because there is no standard.

Perhaps there ARE larger difference between the drivers, but more advanced measurements would need to be taken such as Klippel and THD analysis before any conclusions can be drawn. I am all for such measurements., I love the klippel and it really tells you everything wrong with a speaker. Its almost embarrassing, but its necessary.

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

I know that I dont know as much as you Kyle, but you do understand that you can throw all of those number out the window when you put it in the box and even more when it arrives in the car.

EDIT: I can also attest that I liked the mag over 2 of your woofers. Mag also took the SPL by quite a bit.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

would you be referring to the new mag in your comparision post?

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

would you be referring to the new mag in your comparision post?

Yeah he is.

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

Breaking down T/S's is fun. What I have a problem with is that based off of your post, any 3 inch core driver is basically a Mag...give or take a little. Right? Old school Nuke 12's, Brahma MKII 12's, ED A's, Blueprint 12's, etc, all have T/S's that are close enough to fall into the category of "close" for T/S comparissons. None of the above sound like any of the others. The same thing should be noted when trying to compare an RLp to a Mag - they are very different beasts when it comes to how they perform in someone's car or home. They sound different, they "hit" different, have different extension capabilities in different enclosures, etc.

Our Mag's are very different than the RLp's, and anyone who has heard both drivers will tell you just that.

I almost said to compare our older drivers made by your company for a closer comparisson, but even then they were considerably different from one another.

 

[ngsm13 5,000+ posts]

Hmm.

Yeah... numbers on paper are cool and all...

But all that matters... is how it performs in vehicle... REAL WORLD.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

nG

 

[iceteebone 5,000+ posts]

imo the rl-p was a better bang for the buck sub. i liked my rl-p's a lot. i wasn't dissapointed with my mag either and would be happy with that, but for the cost of 1 15" mag you can get 2 12" rl-p's and i was happier with my 2 rl-p's then my 15" mag but i was not displeased with my mag at all. you already had rl-p's and weren't completly satisfied so why not try a mag? do you have 3 cubes external? i ported my 15" mag with 3.2 cubes and it was nice. you guys can throw numbers around all night but what matters most is how it sounds to the consumer. the mag is right in the same class as all the drivers you have owned before so why not try it and see if you like it. i know it was mentioned before but check your install. those are great drivers you listed and should've suit your needs

 

[Johnny Drama 5,000+ posts]

imo the rl-p was a better bang for the buck sub. i liked my rl-p's a lot. i wasn't dissapointed with my mag either and would be happy with that, but for the cost of 1 15" mag you can get 2 12" rl-p's and i was happier with my 2 rl-p's then my 15" mag but i was not displeased with my mag at all. you already had rl-p's and weren't completly satisfied so why not try a mag? do you have 3 cubes external? i ported my 15" mag with 3.2 cubes and it was nice. you guys can throw numbers around all night but what matters most is how it sounds to the consumer. the mag is right in the same class as all the drivers you have owned before so why not try it and see if you like it. i know it was mentioned before but check your install. those are great drivers you listed and should've suit your needs

Best post outside the lounge I have seen you make...EVAR!!

 

[iceteebone 5,000+ posts]

Best post outside the lounge I have seen you make...EVAR!!
i can do it, i really can //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif

 

[vetkilr 10+ year member]

lol

 

[bigbassman Premium Member]

Breaking down T/S's is fun. What I have a problem with is that based off of your post, any 3 inch core driver is basically a Mag...give or take a little. Right? Old school Nuke 12's, Brahma MKII 12's, ED A's, Blueprint 12's, etc, all have T/S's that are close enough to fall into the category of "close" for T/S comparissons. None of the above sound like any of the others. The same thing should be noted when trying to compare an RLp to a Mag - they are very different beasts when it comes to how they perform in someone's car or home. They sound different, they "hit" different, have different extension capabilities in different enclosures, etc.

x 11ty billion..

there's more than enough variance in the data to suggest substantial differences in car.. in box.. in use..

I'm not a big fan of data guessing... but its pretty obvious those 2 drivers are as similiar as me and nick morgan... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I guess we'll just have to wait until the test session to make it official.. meter's and ears don't lie...

Loyd L.

 

[zachzchw 5,000+ posts]

ok i have a couple options here and im liooking for tight accurate bass with ablity to get pretty loud... but not loud whjere it drowns out the front stage. I have a 9.1 to work with.Si mag 12 ported 1.8 tuned to 32 hz......... good thing about abuot this option i already have the box and it will cost me 400

SI mag 15 450+80 bucks for sealed 3 cube box

Or TC 3000 for 425+80 bux for the box.

Ive owned almost every sub with very little happiness. w7's xxx to boomy. IDmax was quick accurate and tight but i wanted somethign alittle louder. Same with the rlp it was alittle louder.

I had an uberwoofer which is sorta like the 3000 i would think. Only sub i havent tried i think is the SI mag

I count five subs that you have owned.....

Hardly "almost every sub".

Try the mag, if you dont like it, sell it.

Or maybe one of the new FI woofers, they look promising. Might want to wait for some real world reviews though, not too many people have heard them.

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

I'm not a big fan of data guessing... but its pretty obvious those 2 drivers are as similiar as me and nick morgan... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

daddY?

is that you??

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif

owch that hurt daddy...

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