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I apologize for the lack of avatar in advance.
I am glad to see the FLAC car audio discussion rear its head again. I am a staunch supporter, but can see the positions of both sides.
On the issue of sound quality, I cannot vouch for exactly which frequencies are stet from recordings, but to my knowledge it is not only higher Hz frequencies. There appears to be an extirpation of dynamic range throughout any given lossy recording.
With many recordings the nature of the music itself can necessitate/obviate a need for better audio quality. I am a musician and I listen to progressive metal, classical, and symphony recordings where the dynamic range in the music is palpable even to untrained ears (and missed in lesser-quality recordings). However, if I'm listening to classic rock, hip-hop or something with a basic four-chord melody, then the need might not be there, it all depends.
Truly, the desire for a smoother home audio/car audio/entertainment environment comes in synergyzed simplicity. To this end, I believe FLAC can be a solution, although I am not tied to it. The alternative suggestions for transferring good-quality audio to the automobile (and not using FLAC) are accurate, but miss the larger point.
The important question is not having "good-enough" audio, the question is how to avoid converting audio files at all. In my mind, if one recording exists in your library, it should be available to you whenever you want it, without any further efforts. Apple has failed me in this regard. Optimally, recordings should be a completely uncompressed CD or WAV quality recording, with tags. These are the winning qualities of FLAC, but currently its cross-application is limited.
I understand programming language(s) and computer design, but only infuse those elements of hardware into my life that I feel will truly make it better. I use a generation 1 iPod shuffle, which works great for workouts; I’ve eschewed incorporating more sophisticated iPods including the iPhone. While I am quite impressed with devices such as the iPad, I read paper books more quickly than most, and can easily drop one in favor of another. While I could do modest Email management on an iPad (as I can on my mobile) I needn’t trouble myself with the Internet when I am out, and do quite well with the antediluvian ‘paper’ technology.
These things being considered, note I have a massive audio collection. I realized my audio tastes were ever-evolving, but did not want to house an enormous collection of CDs. Having roughly 500 CDs and 70 DVDs in a nice cabinet maxed out in space, I long ago I discovered the wonders of the library. I live in the Los Angeles Basin, and hold no less than 15 different libraries’ cards. I’ve been able to acquire many out-of-print recordings that would have cost more money than I could normally rationalize (none of which would have gone to the original artists). I now have these albums at my fingertips, but only at home, on my computer. I do not ‘back-up’ all my albums on FLAC, but I would love grab them on the fly. Besides, do any of us enjoy reconfiguring iTunes libraries or that extra process of selecting CDs for a trip?
Why should we not have a portable hard drive, accessible by an automotive head unit? It seems a logical progression to me. For now, a car PC seems the only real option, but does seem to be overkill. Additionally, it can run a higher theft risk, whereas head units… are only head units. We live in a society that is always looking for an opportunity to sell you the clothes you are already wearing. Do you live in a ‘shielded apartment’ with poor wiring and bad OTA reception? You’ll need to purchase cable to receive the regular television signals you pay for with tax dollars, and even more for the free HDTV you would receive with a decent signal. The average smart mobile phone incurs an extra $400 in extra application purchases in the first 60 days, so much for that rebate. Were FLAC to be mainstreamed (and it still might be), the ease of pilfering the consumer for inadequate audio files (Amazon, iTunes) might go the way of Bakelite. Say wha?!
I am glad to see the FLAC car audio discussion rear its head again. I am a staunch supporter, but can see the positions of both sides.
On the issue of sound quality, I cannot vouch for exactly which frequencies are stet from recordings, but to my knowledge it is not only higher Hz frequencies. There appears to be an extirpation of dynamic range throughout any given lossy recording.
With many recordings the nature of the music itself can necessitate/obviate a need for better audio quality. I am a musician and I listen to progressive metal, classical, and symphony recordings where the dynamic range in the music is palpable even to untrained ears (and missed in lesser-quality recordings). However, if I'm listening to classic rock, hip-hop or something with a basic four-chord melody, then the need might not be there, it all depends.
Truly, the desire for a smoother home audio/car audio/entertainment environment comes in synergyzed simplicity. To this end, I believe FLAC can be a solution, although I am not tied to it. The alternative suggestions for transferring good-quality audio to the automobile (and not using FLAC) are accurate, but miss the larger point.
The important question is not having "good-enough" audio, the question is how to avoid converting audio files at all. In my mind, if one recording exists in your library, it should be available to you whenever you want it, without any further efforts. Apple has failed me in this regard. Optimally, recordings should be a completely uncompressed CD or WAV quality recording, with tags. These are the winning qualities of FLAC, but currently its cross-application is limited.
I understand programming language(s) and computer design, but only infuse those elements of hardware into my life that I feel will truly make it better. I use a generation 1 iPod shuffle, which works great for workouts; I’ve eschewed incorporating more sophisticated iPods including the iPhone. While I am quite impressed with devices such as the iPad, I read paper books more quickly than most, and can easily drop one in favor of another. While I could do modest Email management on an iPad (as I can on my mobile) I needn’t trouble myself with the Internet when I am out, and do quite well with the antediluvian ‘paper’ technology.
These things being considered, note I have a massive audio collection. I realized my audio tastes were ever-evolving, but did not want to house an enormous collection of CDs. Having roughly 500 CDs and 70 DVDs in a nice cabinet maxed out in space, I long ago I discovered the wonders of the library. I live in the Los Angeles Basin, and hold no less than 15 different libraries’ cards. I’ve been able to acquire many out-of-print recordings that would have cost more money than I could normally rationalize (none of which would have gone to the original artists). I now have these albums at my fingertips, but only at home, on my computer. I do not ‘back-up’ all my albums on FLAC, but I would love grab them on the fly. Besides, do any of us enjoy reconfiguring iTunes libraries or that extra process of selecting CDs for a trip?
Why should we not have a portable hard drive, accessible by an automotive head unit? It seems a logical progression to me. For now, a car PC seems the only real option, but does seem to be overkill. Additionally, it can run a higher theft risk, whereas head units… are only head units. We live in a society that is always looking for an opportunity to sell you the clothes you are already wearing. Do you live in a ‘shielded apartment’ with poor wiring and bad OTA reception? You’ll need to purchase cable to receive the regular television signals you pay for with tax dollars, and even more for the free HDTV you would receive with a decent signal. The average smart mobile phone incurs an extra $400 in extra application purchases in the first 60 days, so much for that rebate. Were FLAC to be mainstreamed (and it still might be), the ease of pilfering the consumer for inadequate audio files (Amazon, iTunes) might go the way of Bakelite. Say wha?!
Just saying...my empeg is still playing flacs with a 500gb hd in it and on-the-fly playlist building and searching...runs a linux kernel and has a web server. Can accomodate 2 laptop harddrives. Works just like a head unit, without a cd player. Only downside is it doesn't have a dedicated sub out or built-in crossovers. Easy to deal with by using it to push aux-in to a better HU.
I'm lazy... If I happen to come across content in FLAC, I'll just use dBPowerAmp to convert it to Apple Lossless or AAC then slap it on the iPod.
For the most part, I use Exact Audio Copy to rip my personal CDs to WAV then convert from there. If the content is something that I wish to retain in lossless, I will convert it to Apple Lossless. Sadly, even Apple Lossless is a compromise sometimes because I do have some 96 kHz 24 bit vinyl conversions that I have to down sample to be able to play on my ipod through the 9887.
On the other hand, that brings me to a question that has been repeated many times throughout the thread... Can anyone truly tell the difference between CD, Lossless, AAC, and MP3s that are encoded properly in a vehicle traveling down the road? The only reason I leave certain content in Lossless format is because my car isn't the sole source of listening.
While it would be nice to have FLAC support in the automobile, there are very few portable media devices that support it and virtually NO head units that control them. Sure, it would be nice to have something that reads FLAC from an external hard drive or a thumb drive; but most head units **** at navigating through folders upon folders filled with music files.
Going further, one MUST again realize that we are talking about CAR AUDIO here that is subject to 60 dB or greater noise floors along with all kinds of extraneous variables outside of one's control to interfere with the quality of sound while traveling down the highway. I don't know about anyone else here, but sitting in my car parked for hours and hours upon end listening to music is NOT something that I do.
For the most part, I use Exact Audio Copy to rip my personal CDs to WAV then convert from there. If the content is something that I wish to retain in lossless, I will convert it to Apple Lossless. Sadly, even Apple Lossless is a compromise sometimes because I do have some 96 kHz 24 bit vinyl conversions that I have to down sample to be able to play on my ipod through the 9887.
On the other hand, that brings me to a question that has been repeated many times throughout the thread... Can anyone truly tell the difference between CD, Lossless, AAC, and MP3s that are encoded properly in a vehicle traveling down the road? The only reason I leave certain content in Lossless format is because my car isn't the sole source of listening.
While it would be nice to have FLAC support in the automobile, there are very few portable media devices that support it and virtually NO head units that control them. Sure, it would be nice to have something that reads FLAC from an external hard drive or a thumb drive; but most head units **** at navigating through folders upon folders filled with music files.
Going further, one MUST again realize that we are talking about CAR AUDIO here that is subject to 60 dB or greater noise floors along with all kinds of extraneous variables outside of one's control to interfere with the quality of sound while traveling down the highway. I don't know about anyone else here, but sitting in my car parked for hours and hours upon end listening to music is NOT something that I do.
so you are asking for lossless.. hmm.. what setup do you have? without top of the line speakers and deadening you won't tell the difference.. are you going to sit in your driveway with the engine off rocking out? doubtful.. if so you need a nice ht setup to chill in the house with..
- Thread Starter
- #66
what i have is not relevant...
i wouldnt be starting this topic if i had an AIWA boombox at home and a pair of sony explode speakers in the car.
i do have a nice set monitor audio floor standing speakers with yamaha amp.
and my FLAC collection is growing very quick as im REconverting all my cds to flack instead of MP3.
i use seagate Hometheater+ to store it and play it(optical out)
i have a full system in the car as well that i spent close to 2 years putting together untill i was satisfied with sound.
it it is sound dead to the point where i can turn up my fronts as far as they can handle without any rattles or distortion.
the speakers im using for woofers
and i do sit in the driveway rocking out because i live in appartment and car is the only place i can relax and turn up my favorite song.
and belive me i do turn it up to 95% of the head unit volume and have clean sound with every detail.
i wouldnt be starting this topic if i had an AIWA boombox at home and a pair of sony explode speakers in the car.
i do have a nice set monitor audio floor standing speakers with yamaha amp.
and my FLAC collection is growing very quick as im REconverting all my cds to flack instead of MP3.
i use seagate Hometheater+ to store it and play it(optical out)
i have a full system in the car as well that i spent close to 2 years putting together untill i was satisfied with sound.
it it is sound dead to the point where i can turn up my fronts as far as they can handle without any rattles or distortion.
the speakers im using for woofers
and i do sit in the driveway rocking out because i live in appartment and car is the only place i can relax and turn up my favorite song.
and belive me i do turn it up to 95% of the head unit volume and have clean sound with every detail.
- Thread Starter
- #67
the main idea behind this whole topis is to make it easier for people to use their FULL quality recordings.
think about it.
you own a cd you own an ipod, you own a car stereo and a home theater with a HD.
you can of course use a cd fro everything but then why do people buy MP3 players and ipods and all kinds of digital players CONVENIENCE!!!!!!
that turns into a big INCONVENIENCE when you want to enjoy same quality music in ur car, in your home theater, in your portable.
you either have to store all your music in each format or convert it every time you want to upload it to a different device.
convert to ALAC for ipod but you have to go thru gai-tunes to do anything.
convert to flac for cowon etc
convert to MP3 for car USB thimb drive
etc
yes of course you can use WAV. but its a big file that DOESNT support name tags.
think about it.
you own a cd you own an ipod, you own a car stereo and a home theater with a HD.
you can of course use a cd fro everything but then why do people buy MP3 players and ipods and all kinds of digital players CONVENIENCE!!!!!!
that turns into a big INCONVENIENCE when you want to enjoy same quality music in ur car, in your home theater, in your portable.
you either have to store all your music in each format or convert it every time you want to upload it to a different device.
convert to ALAC for ipod but you have to go thru gai-tunes to do anything.
convert to flac for cowon etc
convert to MP3 for car USB thimb drive
etc
yes of course you can use WAV. but its a big file that DOESNT support name tags.
I run a DEX-P99RS.
I download ONLY FLAC and convert them to apple lossless using XLD. No more scratched CD's and all of that crap.
"The DEX-P99RS features a high-end first: a direct digital bit pipe from the iPod/iPhone to the DSP and DAC. What does this mean? For the first time, you can use an iPod as source material, without sacrificing sound quality.
The key is using Apple Lossless (ALAC) to "rip" all of your music. The result is identical to the same output from an audio CD - but you can store your entire music library on the iPod, instead of just a single album!"
I download ONLY FLAC and convert them to apple lossless using XLD. No more scratched CD's and all of that crap.
"The DEX-P99RS features a high-end first: a direct digital bit pipe from the iPod/iPhone to the DSP and DAC. What does this mean? For the first time, you can use an iPod as source material, without sacrificing sound quality.
The key is using Apple Lossless (ALAC) to "rip" all of your music. The result is identical to the same output from an audio CD - but you can store your entire music library on the iPod, instead of just a single album!"
And yes, it sounds JUST as good as burning FLAC to cd's.
nateberrier 10+ year member
******
after investing in an active HU I find that I dont like listening to anything out of my aux port, usb port or the radio. 320kbps is ok sometimes though. im spoiled and besides my ipod wouldnt hold shiiiiit if i used flac
JimJ 5,000+ posts
Tangled Up in Blue
What do you need a home theater for to listen to music? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif
- Thread Starter
- #72
ipod still decodes the music to pcm format and then sends it to the unit.
as opposed to flac would be decoded by the headunit itsself.
i belive that ipod still uses sound processing "on the way out" to sweeten up the sound a lil bit...
im glad that ipod is working for you moss i have nothing against it hardware wise its a great player.
but i dont like the copyright BS and the fact that you have to go thru itunes for everything.
and the fact that it suppors only few formats that are used mostly by apple products.
as opposed to flac would be decoded by the headunit itsself.
i belive that ipod still uses sound processing "on the way out" to sweeten up the sound a lil bit...
im glad that ipod is working for you moss i have nothing against it hardware wise its a great player.
but i dont like the copyright BS and the fact that you have to go thru itunes for everything.
and the fact that it suppors only few formats that are used mostly by apple products.
Problem is, most people aren't going 75MPH down the highway at any given time...
I usually just take back roads with minimal noise, and since I have a newer car, the noise that does come from traffic/my engine is VERY minimal... in fact, with the air and everything off, it's **** silent in my car going 30 down a normal street. Some of the best moments I can imagine are when I'm parked and listening to music.
And since when does anyone listen to music in a totally silent and controlled environment anyway unless they're making it? Sound quality is ALWAYS important. I'm not going to compromise the art I listen to just because "most people can't tell the difference" ...that's ********. The digital audio file should NOT be the only limiting factor here.
Not to mention, CD/FLAC quality was DESIGNED to fully cover the range of human hearing... so its not like something better is going to come around, because there can't physically be anything better (though higher samplerates/bit-depths exist, they're mostly only used by professionals or people with $50,000 headphones). Why wouldn't a manufacturer of audio products want to exploit this?
And I agree with the OP... Since when is having less than a TB of memory difficult? I have 2 and plan on getting one more when I get a spare $30 //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
Alas, I am going to concede and just load up a usb-powered external HD to a Pioneer DEH3200UB deck and with .wav files. No tags, but I prefer to use the file hierarchy system anyway, so tags are pointless. I kept thinking that the flac problem was due to processors or DACs on head units being very limited, but since they support wav, they would easily be able to support flac with minimal effort.
I can imagine—one day—being able to play DVD-A quality 5.1 surround sound in a car. So.. many.. samples.. per.. second!
hatedonmostly 5,000+ posts
throwin' hunnits, hunnits
flac is pointless /thread
enjoy wasting your hard drive space, noobs
enjoy wasting your hard drive space, noobs
Drive space is cheap and easy to add if you're of reasonable intelligence. Totally moot for a younger mind.
Obviously you don't care about that kind of quality, but I do... so stop calling me a noob when you're retarded ears can't even tell when something has been compressed or not while my OCD ears hear a metallic Mpeg block in a song and cringe.
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