hurry up and bring FLAC to car stereo everyone needs to help out

[supermaxx123 10+ year member]

so your looking for something that supports FLAC on a CD? if your going through all that trouble i think the easiest way would be to use your real cd's and not copy anything.

 

[headless 10+ year member]

Riocar empeg ftw. I've got 500gb of flac/mp3 mixed tracks available in my car and have for years. Pity the empeg was so far ahead of it's time.

 

[ahole-ic]

What I don't understand is, why people are on the side of the manufacturers here when they DON'T innovate. If nobody is in the market for sq, why have processors on the market? Why have all the equalization options in head units?

When they put usb and SD card support in head units there was no market for that either. Everyone was using cds. You could load a dvd full of mp3s and play it on your iva-d900. Why use a memory stick? Nobody does that..... but it took off. It's easier than burning. people like it.

People would like flac support too. It would have a bigger following than what you guys know. Once people realized that when they were demoing their stereo that full quality would make all that extra money they just spent sound like it was worth it... they would use flac. How many of us drive around with our entire music collection in there with us? Not very many. That's the advantage of usb. We can take only what we want to hear right then.... so the arguments on space are not exactly relevant. Even if it were, storage space is increasing like mad with flash chips dropping in price.

Head units have been basically unchanged now for what? 3-5 years? There haven't been any large innovations because we keep buying the crap that they keep putting out. I don't know what people just want a head unit that plays cds, has only a couple rca outputs and crappy equalization options... but don't be mad at the rest of us if we don't want to buy the same old thing. Don't talk crap because we don't want to build a car pc just to be able to play a format that is widely used and becoming a standard.

I also saw the argument that audio manufacturers don't want to add a codec because most people download their music and it's in mp3 format. Why would they want to ONLY support piracy? Most of us rip our own cds and leave them at home and take our ripped music in the car. The REAL problem is that most people on this site are not very smart but yet they think they are geniuses.

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

Don't expect much to change. OEM integration is where its at.

And no, i don't much see a reason for after market manufacturers to go out of their way to implement a standard few people use on stereos where they couldn't tell the difference anyway.

And no, i think people will generally continue to prefer smaller file size over a minute difference.

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

doesn't matter to me anyway. im going the car pc route.

 

[ahole-ic]

And no, i think people will generally continue to prefer smaller file size over a minute difference.

Not that I agree with your premise, but that is the best point made so far.

 

[raverx3m 10+ year member]

well the argument of pioneer was

1 its too expensive to design a programmable chip that would support firmware updates

read between the lines: it is about same price for us to do it but in a year or two we will not be able to release the old REPACKAGED unit with new flashy interface and minimal improvements(if any)

in short its not profitable for a company to release upgradeable units.

look at alpine they all show firmware update but i have never seen one EVER

2) pioneer claims that licenses are very expensive in order to support flac, or other codecs

i read: if we support all codecs at same time then next year there will be nothing new to introduce, we have to milk the cow and bring the "improvements" one by one so people are FORCED to buy new models

for example:

for blackberry owners

compare blackberry curve8900 and bold9700

identical phones with exception of 3G capability and trackpad

memory, cpu,screen size, camera resolution and practically everything else is same

minimal upgrades to keep the customer starving...

BUT: whose fault is that?

is it the fault of the company whose only goal is profit and they manufacture what sells best

or is it the fault of the consumer that is not well educated but demands more, faster,cheaper...

theres a good saying: fast,reliable,cheap (pick only 2) alot of people want all 3 which are impossible in this world.

but back to the flac.

there are alot of audiophiles in the world.

mostly in home audio.

and if you pay attention you will see that flac is being held up by the manufacturers from expanding

every flac supporting mp3 player that has great sound quality to back it p has been bought out and kept

and like rio decks there are also a very hard items to get just because they were ahead of time

but what alot of people dont notice is how quickly a good product disappears from the market. because if one model is great features and great value then nothing else sells

if a company wants to raise profits it releases an underrated model for a great price and then replaces it with something crappy next year and rides the wave.

if people would observe and see the big picture there would be no need to start this topic.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

and if you pay attention you will see that flac is being held up by the manufacturers from expanding

All variants of the Squeezebox run FLAC, what else do you need?

I see no audiophiles complaining about the lack of FLAC support at home - they're either running SlimServer or direct from the DAC. And that's the only market that really matters for this anyway - I agree that you're not going to be able to tell a difference in a moving vehicle. At home, yes, depending on the resolution of the system.

Once people realized that when they were demoing their stereo that full quality would make all that extra money they just spent sound like it was worth it... they would use flac.

You're on a forum composed of mostly teenagers and people just beyond it whose definition of "demo" rarely includes anything above 100Hz. Look at what people emphasize in their signatures - that's all the proof you need. They don't care.

I don't know what people just want a head unit that plays cds, has only a couple rca outputs and crappy equalization options..

Me. Actually, I could do without any EQ, just a transport and DAC //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif This is the concept behind something like a Denon Z1...and it doesn't exactly have a bad reputation with people whose ears are pretty good.

 

[ahole-ic]

All variants of the Squeezebox run FLAC, what else do you need?
Me. Actually, I could do without any EQ, just a transport and DAC //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif This is the concept behind something like a Denon Z1...and it doesn't exactly have a bad reputation with people whose ears are pretty good.

Well, in my application, midbass is sorely lacking etc. Without EQ, it makes it difficult to reproduce the sound as I know it should sound. I realize most people don't think about much above 100hz, but really it's really not asking that much to simply add a codec. It's not that much to ask to simply add some eq options.

I am just delving into SQ, so I'm clearly no expert. I run a Kenwood KVT-819dvd. I use 320kbps mp3's and original cds. I can tell a big difference from 192kbps and 320, but not a huge diff when going to cd from mp3-320 depending on volume. As I turn the volume up, I can hear the difference more clearly between the two.

I don't have the experience to know what SQ guys are going for. I like my listening level to the point that the music engulfs me. Where I don't hear anything BUT it, but not much louder than that. For these levels, my equipment is not at its limits. My ears pick up no perceivable distortion. At these levels, I cannot honestly pick out which is 320kbps mp3 and which is cd. If I go above this level much, I can hear harshness in my highs in the mp3s. With the CD, I do not get this until I reach my equipment's limits. So it's not that I don't understand everyone's points. This is for a small percentage of users and just a small percentage of their usage.... I disagree though, that we should not demand innovation in this form from the manufacturers. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a feature that is just a firmware modification. It's not like we're asking for a bunch of hardware to change. It's a FREE codec. They don't have to pay any royalties or licensing. They just need to implement it.

As for the filesize vs quality argument. I admit it's a good point, but you seem like you're experienced in the piracy market //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif I have some knowledge on the matter. What percentage of people download vcd's and cams when they have the choice to download the dvd quality? EVERYONE downloads the dvd quality. NOBODY wants a cam or vcd. Sure it can download in 20 minutes, but I can't stand to watch it. The dvd quality is usually not dvd quality. It looks and sounds like garbage but you get the point, but it leaves you feeling like you jerked it when you had the choice to get laid. That's why there are dvd iso's out there and bluray iso's now. They are not a small percentage anymore. It's available. People are becoming educated on the matter, and they want it and use it. The same would happen with flac if it were made more widely available.

 

[raverx3m 10+ year member]

id have to disagree on lack of eq.

eq should be a standard feature.

because like you said the car is far from a perfect environment and you will not get a flat responce from a car for the most part because of the differences in the interior design of every car so you will have dips and ups that would need to be equalized or done the hard way by modifying the interior.

even leather seats make a big difference. as they absorb alot less sound.

but just because the car is a crappy environment doesnt mean you can just totally forget abotu good sound

it should be opposite

its kinda like saying honda is slow car so theres no use in putting a turbo on it or any other mods to make it perform better.

i said it many times and will say it again

once my front stage was done i lost all need for rear speakers and sub

the only music i need a sub for is hiphop.

everything else sounds amazing with just front components.

i have some really good quality recordings that dont sound right with compressed audio.

and i do belive that most people are capable of telling a difference between garbage and very expensive speakers and between compressed and cd quality.

it takes few days for your ears to adjust to different sound just like with headphones.

a good example would be sony DJ headphones and a pair of AudioTechnica headphones. similar headphones but a big difference in sound.

so probably now is a good time to start buggin the manufacturers so maybe by next year or middle of this year we might see FLAC support

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

I'm not disagreeing with the need for EQ (I realized I wasn't very clear in that post), I'm just saying there's a better place for it...like in an outboard processor or standalone unit //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[raverx3m 10+ year member]

i always thought that less processing means better sound overall

so having all the sound adjustments built in headunit would be better

sonce from headunit its a long way to the processor more chances to pick up distortion

because inside the headunit the processing is most likely is done in same circut as the preamp and then sent to RCA or internal amp

with external its processed at the unit goes thu preamp to the rca >external procesor>rca> amplifier>speakers

alot longer path and more possibilities to pick up noise.

i might be wrong tho.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

So use a processor that uses fiber (Pioneer) or run balanced, problem solved //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Eugenics 5,000+ posts]

Flac. I need more flac!

 

[jmanpc 5,000+ posts]

The answer is simple. I dare you to hear a difference between a FLAC file and a 192kbps mp3 while you're doing 75 down the highway.

Unless your car is an anechoic chamber on wheels, chances are you won't be able to tell. I sure as hell can't tell the difference in a brand new CD and my Zune (toting music in 192kbps mp3) that's hooked in through an RCA input.

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