How does this do rated???

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Well I agree simply because I don't have a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to pay for new amps. I agree though. I would just expect better quality from a name like treo engineering.

Better quality = higher fuse rating.

Looks like my work here is done.

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

Better quality = higher fuse rating.


Looks like my work here is done.

How does that make sense? Some lower end amps use a ton of onboard fuses, but do nowhere near the power that those fuses can withstand.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

How does that make sense? Some lower end amps use a ton of onboard fuses, but do nowhere near the power that those fuses can withstand.

Exactly. So WTF are you worried about the fuse rating on this amp for? Treo sells good quality products and I'm quite confident that the difference between this and any other Korean 1200-1500W amp would be inaudible. Are you on some kind of quest to see the absolute maximum power you can get out of an amp before you blow it up, or are you trying to have nice music and a good looking install with a brand you like?

Have you stopped to consider that a reputable company would UNDER fuse so that you'll blow fuses before you blow up the amp? If you really think you'll need to constantly push that amp to it's limits long enough to blow out 120A fusing to be satisfied you should be considering getting like a 3K.

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

Exactly. So WTF are you worried about the fuse rating on this amp for? Treo sells good quality products and I'm quite confident that the difference between this and any other Korean 1200-1500W amp would be inaudible. Are you on some kind of quest to see the absolute maximum power you can get out of an amp before you blow it up, or are you trying to have nice music and a good looking install with a brand you like?
Have you stopped to consider that a reputable company would UNDER fuse so that you'll blow fuses before you blow up the amp? If you really think you'll need to constantly push that amp to it's limits long enough to blow out 120A fusing to be satisfied you should be considering getting like a 3K.

The 3k might honestly be a good idea. But yes, I like surprising people with low wattage setups. I love good clean efficient builds. And yes, I like keeping brands together, but not crucial.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

The 3k might honestly be a good idea. But yes, I like surprising people with low wattage setups. I love good clean efficient builds. And yes, I like keeping brands together, but not crucial.

OK, then why are you worried about something that would 100% be inaudible. Put some effort into testing and designing a good box. Even orientation of subs/port(s)/box in the car can make audible differences (read 2 or 5dB) while trying to abuse your amp will give you inaudible gains.

 

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

For the fuse Nazi's trying to pinpoint an amp's power capability based on the current rating of the fuse.

Opening time specs for APR fuses:

110% 100hr min

135% 3/4sec to 30min

200% 150ms to 5sec

350% 80ms to 250ms

120A fuse protection can pass ~130A basically forever.

140A probably for a few seconds.

150A on a burst

One of the carsound engineers once explained their max power testing procedures in the lab and how they commonly had to replace the onboard fuses with shorting bars because the constant nature of the test would blow the fuses, but they were perfectly adequate for music, and provided some protection in the car.

Fuse size power approximations are only accurate enough to give you ball park numbers on a dirt cheap brand with jacked up ratings. They're not of much value for a quality amp.

My amp has no fuses -- so it produces infinite power //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

I understand how to test power output. My point is that we don't listen to resistors, we listen to subwoofers, which are reactive loads. So if I want a real world power test, I need to test my amplifier while it is connected to a subwoofer(s). When I do that, I cannot eliminate the phase shift between current and voltage so I cannot use the dc formula.
Maybe you have a wall of resistors behind you in your car and if so then I suppose resistive testing is real world for you. ;-)

Real power is the power which does work and it is the power we are trying to measure.. So I think it's very "real world" in any setup //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

For the fuse Nazi's trying to pinpoint an amp's power capability based on the current rating of the fuse.
Opening time specs for APR fuses:

110% 100hr min

135% 3/4sec to 30min

200% 150ms to 5sec

350% 80ms to 250ms

120A fuse protection can pass ~130A basically forever.

140A probably for a few seconds.

150A on a burst

One of the carsound engineers once explained their max power testing procedures in the lab and how they commonly had to replace the onboard fuses with shorting bars because the constant nature of the test would blow the fuses, but they were perfectly adequate for music, and provided some protection in the car.

Fuse size power approximations are only accurate enough to give you ball park numbers on a dirt cheap brand with jacked up ratings. They're not of much value for a quality amp.

My amp has no fuses -- so it produces infinite power //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I actually learned a good bit from that little spleel. On a side note, my zed made Lanzar opti 100.2 does not have fuses either. I have an old Japanese made sony 2 channel (purple color I believe) and has a 20 fuse in it, but I've always wanted to believe it pushed more than 200 watts or so. Honestly, my old rule of thumb was 100 watts per 10amps of fuse. A lot of that makes sense.

 

[bbeljefe]

Real power is the power which does work and it is the power we are trying to measure.. So I think it's very "real world" in any setup //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

So explain to me how it is that you presume a resistor dissipating heat to be work but you do not presume a coil moving to be. After all, you're now making the argument that the power wasted in a resistive load test is the only power we should be concerned with.

 

[ThatChevyGuy 5,000+ posts]

Just for example.

A jbl bp1200.1 was tested @1378w at 2 ohm and does over 1400w@1 with only 120a of onboard fusing. Quality components make the difference.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

So explain to me how it is that you presume a resistor dissipating heat to be work but you do not presume a coil moving to be. After all, you're now making the argument that the power wasted in a resistive load test is the only power we should be concerned with.

Real power (watts) = work done by the amplifier. Reactive power does not do any work. In case you didn't know, work is a measure of force over time, and it is commonly expressed using watts as the unit. Unless you want to argue that reactive power, which does no work (0 w), is what moves the subwoofer, I think we're done here.

And that is the definition of AC power.

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

Just for example.
A jbl bp1200.1 was tested @1378w at 2 ohm and does over 1400w@1 with only 120a of onboard fusing. Quality components make the difference.

this would also be why a sundown sae-1000 has only 90 amps of fuse, but can produce rated and a little more, correct?

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

this would also be why a sundown sae-1000 has only 90 amps of fuse, but can produce rated and a little more, correct?

This is why a MMATs 3500.1 recommends 200 amps of fusing.. It's not that it's "magically efficient" but they aren't made to be used on loads below their rated impedance, so after rise there's no way it'll need anywhere near 10a of fusing per "100w"

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

This is why a MMATs 3500.1 recommends 200 amps of fusing.. It's not that it's "magically efficient" but they aren't made to be used on loads below their rated impedance, so after rise there's no way it'll need anywhere near 10a of fusing per "100w"

It seems that people tend to put mats amplifiers into their own group concerning power output vs input. Mmats arent doing anything different than the rest are they?

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

It seems that people tend to put mats amplifiers into their own group concerning power output vs input. Mmats arent doing anything different than the rest are they?

They aren't as efficient as people like to make them seem. They use higher rail voltage (similar to Brazillian amps) but they aren't particularly, if at all more efficient than Korean amps from testing results I've seen posted... I would be interested in seeing some more in-depth tests from reputable sources, though.