How does this do rated???

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

It might be just me, but I like to make sure if an company claims to sell me a 1400 watt amp, I would like to actually get 1400 watts. For example, (I am a server at Cracker Barrel) if you ordered 6 pieces of fried chicken tenderloins, and I brought your food out with 4 or 5, would u not be sort of upset that you didn't get what both the menu and I said came with it?
Yes, I tend to revere amps for their quality and internals too, but if a company promises a top notch amp at a high end price, I expect their item to not lie to me from the very beginning. On a side note, I did run the treo ssx 750.1 and loved it.

So assuming there is a 200W spread on something like this where a "1400W" amp would make either 1300 or 1500. Do you really believe you would notice the difference? It would be inaudible for certain and very possibly wouldn't even help you pick up a tenth if you're chasing numbers.

Furthermore, it is highly likely that most people will never ever have their amp putting out maximum power. The point is that out of all the things you could worry about when buying an amplifier, wringing your hands over 10% or so difference in rated output is about the last thing with which you should concern yourself.

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

While yes you are right on the concept of a 10% change being an inaudible difference, and that a lot of amps are hardly ever going to reach max power (level, voltage, ohm load, etc.) it's just the idea that lying about ratings is the wrong way to sell products. Do u not agree?? Also, in larger wattage applications, would a 10% change (say on a 10k watt amp) make an audible difference?

 

[Beatin' 10+ year member]

For example, (I am a server at Cracker Barrel) if you ordered 6 pieces of fried chicken tenderloins, and I brought your food out with 4 or 5, would u not be sort of upset that you didn't get what both the menu and I said came with it?

Dude.........One time I bought a 20 piece chicken nugget from McDonalds and only had 18 in it.

I. Was. ******g. Livid. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rage.gif.0ad8a6e5565b5fddce406566fdd05149.gif

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

Dude.........One time I bought a 20 piece chicken nugget from McDonalds and only had 18 in it.
I. Was. ******g. Livid. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rage.gif.0ad8a6e5565b5fddce406566fdd05149.gif

Exactly!! Lol

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

I'm not trying to make anything seem like anything else. I simply said that you cannot use a dc formula on an ac circuit. Of course, you can... but you aren't likely to get the correct product. And "if" is not a mathematical operator.

You most definitely can when the phase angle is zero. When is the phase angle zero? When the clamp test is done properly.

 

[bbeljefe]

You most definitely can when the phase angle is zero. When is the phase angle zero? When the clamp test is done properly.

You can do anything you like but doing it doesn't make it correct. And yes, you can clamp test an amp with a resistor and use the DC power formula. But you cannot clamp test an amp in a real world environment with a resistor. Nor can you apply the DC power formula to a reactive load and get a correct answer.

Moreover, what is a "proper" clamp test? Resistors are fine but not if I'm looking for real world testing. And if I am looking for real world data, then I cannot use the DC power formula.

 

[globalminds_ent 10+ year member]

LOL.... 120A x 14V= 1680W

Do this 1680x.85 you get 1428 which assumes this amp performs at 85% efficiency at 1 ohm which it could but i doubt it

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

You can do anything you like but doing it doesn't make it correct. And yes, you can clamp test an amp with a resistor and use the DC power formula. But you cannot clamp test an amp in a real world environment with a resistor. Nor can you apply the DC power formula to a reactive load and get a correct answer.
Moreover, what is a "proper" clamp test? Resistors are fine but not if I'm looking for real world testing. And if I am looking for real world data, then I cannot use the DC power formula.

A proper clamp test will include the amperage, voltage, and phase angle measurements. The simplest way to measure all three is by eliminating the phase angle. Also, how is measuring the real power not "real world"? It's certainly more "real world" than results which are skewed by an unknown phase angle. You're making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

Do this 1680x.85 you get 1428 which assumes this amp performs at 85% efficiency at 1 ohm which it could but i doubt it

Fuses can handle currents which are approximately 1.5x their rating for short periods of time. They do not blow as soon as a current larger than their rating passes through. Fuse rating means nothing.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

While yes you are right on the concept of a 10% change being an inaudible difference, and that a lot of amps are hardly ever going to reach max power (level, voltage, ohm load, etc.) it's just the idea that lying about ratings is the wrong way to sell products. Do u not agree?? Also, in larger wattage applications, would a 10% change (say on a 10k watt amp) make an audible difference?

I'd bet that it would make even less difference from 10K to 11K considering that typically when you're at that power level small gains on a meter become more and more difficult.

That being said, I'm sure if you put your mind to it you could get that TREO amp to make rated power.

And if you can actually keep down 18 chicken McNuggets you're made of stronger stuff than I am. That's some vile stuff there.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

I'd bet that it would make even less difference from 10K to 11K considering that typically when you're at that power level small gains on a meter become more and more difficult.
That being said, I'm sure if you put your mind to it you could get that TREO amp to make rated power.

And if you can actually keep down 18 chicken McNuggets you're made of stronger stuff than I am. That's some vile stuff there.

When will people learn that decibels are a logarithm and not a linear coorelation...

As you said, a 10% difference in power is nothing. That's around 0.4 dB in OPTIMAL conditions.. and as we know, nothing is optimal in the real world.

And I agree on the chicken nuggets.

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

Well, if that treo amp does not do rated, especially at 14.4 volts, then i am bummed to say the least. Do u think an amp like this could take higher fusing and a lower ohm load to make clean power? I ran a treo ssx 15 off a crescendo 2k in an eclipse and loved the sub (except for it seemed to have a problem with managing and dissipating heat) and just assumed that the rarity of treo products, and some do their smaller amps (75.2) putting out more than rated easily, that their upper line of amps would be even better.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

Well, if that treo amp does not do rated, especially at 14.4 volts, then i am bummed to say the least. Do u think an amp like this could take higher fusing and a lower ohm load to make clean power? I ran a treo ssx 15 off a crescendo 2k in an eclipse and loved the sub (except for it seemed to have a problem with managing and dissipating heat) and just assumed that the rarity of treo products, and some do their smaller amps (75.2) putting out more than rated easily, that their upper line of amps would be even better.

Never put larger fuses in an amp. Also, I would like to say never drop below the recommended lowest impedance, but no one would listen to that...

 

[CaptainMaximus 10+ year member]

Well I agree simply because I don't have a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to pay for new amps. I agree though. I would just expect better quality from a name like treo engineering.

 

[bbeljefe]

A proper clamp test will include the amperage, voltage, and phase angle measurements. The simplest way to measure all three is by eliminating the phase angle. Also, how is measuring the real power not "real world"? It's certainly more "real world" than results which are skewed by an unknown phase angle. You're making this much more complicated than it needs to be.

I understand how to test power output. My point is that we don't listen to resistors, we listen to subwoofers, which are reactive loads. So if I want a real world power test, I need to test my amplifier while it is connected to a subwoofer(s). When I do that, I cannot eliminate the phase shift between current and voltage so I cannot use the dc formula.

Maybe you have a wall of resistors behind you in your car and if so then I suppose resistive testing is real world for you. ;-)