High Effiency Midrange

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

I have a pair of old school 6" USD midbass drivers...98db efficiency brand new in th' box....talk about efficiency...USD was the original makers of horn drivers before Image Dynamics...one of their most famed builds was Richard Clarks legendary Grand National...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Yeah, you can also benefit from the typical boost in-car in the 400hz region. In certain setups I've had dedicated midbass @ 250hz 12db LP, with certain midranges underlapped between a 300-500hz HP depending on driver and location.
Good luck.

Underlapped, really why? What benefit did that bring?

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Winslow has stated they are "good" down to about 175hz @ 24db/oct.
Though crossing at 300hz would very likely have less distortion.

Anyways, about the Daytons; As was said, they are supposed to have solid midbass so they very well could work. There are some other options aswell, most of which are a little harder to find. Though the Peerless SLS that (I believe) replaced the XLS looks interesting.

Thats pretty low. I think I'd rather have the midbass play that frequency. Wouldn't it be beneficial to have the midbass play as high as possible, so long as it stays omnidirectional?

 

[WLDock 10+ year member]

Well, 200Hz is the point where it start to get directional. That is why I think it might be a good option for the original poster to go with the larger RS125 mid over the RS52 mids. If he can get the pod large enough so that the response is smooth down to 200Hz that would be the best bet. Not always an easy thing to do.

Bottom Line...

If you have the option to do so, keep the midbass playing as low as possible.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Underlapped, really why? What benefit did that bring?

none necessarily, but if both driver are fairly close to each other they'd end up acting as 1 driver during those frequencies. Due to the way slopes combine as well as cabin gain, you rarely need to set all the speaker to take up exactly where the other one left off.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

Well, 200Hz is the point where it start to get directional. That is why I think it might be a good option for the original poster to go with the larger RS125 mid over the RS52 mids. If he can get the pod large enough so that the response is smooth down to 200Hz that would be the best bet. Not always an easy thing to do.
Bottom Line...

If you have the option to do so, keep the midbass playing as low as possible.

Did you get that number from calculations based on woofer cone diameter? Or was it based on how the human ear hears? I've heard a ton of numbers as to where bass becomes directional, most of it either doesn't include solid data or seems to forget the fact that physics isn't the only thing governing how a woofer sounds.

I personally wouldn't want to run that Audax so low, but I'm surely going to experiment with X-over frequencies when I get my woofers set up and glassed in.

 

[JonJT 10+ year member]

none necessarily, but if both driver are fairly close to each other they'd end up acting as 1 driver during those frequencies. Due to the way slopes combine as well as cabin gain, you rarely need to set all the speaker to take up exactly where the other one left off.

Yeah, your right, you'd end up getting some boost and comb filtering since you have the same frequencies coming from two surfaces.

 

[WLDock 10+ year member]

Did you get that number from calculations based on woofer cone diameter? Or was it based on how the human ear hears? I've heard a ton of numbers as to where bass becomes directional, most of it either doesn't include solid data or seems to forget the fact that physics isn't the only thing governing how a woofer sounds. I personally wouldn't want to run that Audax so low, but I'm surely going to experiment with X-over frequencies when I get my woofers set up and glassed in.

OK, I need to leave this one alone...Brain fart again....The Dayton RS mids I mentioned that was from a completely different post...Duh!!

Anyway, I was not thinking of the Audax mids, as they don't play that low but the B&C mids that I linked.

As far as the point where bass becomes directional......

Just as I have always heard that high frequency sounds are more directional, I heard that bass is omni directional starting at about 250Hz. That is based on human hearing.....But yes it goes with out saying physics can come into play. If you have a panel resonating and buzzing at any bass frequency it will become directional as you are no longer listening to just the fundamental tone.

We have all experienced the effect of "bass upfront". Usually you need a low sub crossover point to achieve it.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

The sub up front effect is based on phsyics. However, your wrong in regards to the fact that phsyics isn't the only thing dictating how a sub works, because it is. It's simply too complex to calculate for all parameters. However, on one level your correct, physics is an attempt to describe reality, not the other way around.

Frequencies below 80hz or so, are phsically longer than the car. Becuase of this, you cannot locate the souce of the sound. The wave wont' be within a substantially differenent position no matter where it is. The wave will be either postive and negative on both sides of your head at the same time. Becuase of this, your ears have no phsyical way to tell the difference. Due to the actual nature of this phenonmenon, the bigger your car, theoretically the higher your xo point can be. A rattling panel can quickly ruin this effect though.

The 250hz number, is slightly different (unless your car is 100feet long, then it'll be fine too). Below 300hz or so, a drivers on axis response and off axis response are the same, however, it is localizeable.

 

[NCHEVYHEVN 10+ year member]

So I think I found a midbass that would work well with that Audax midrange. Planninig on the B&C NDL51 8" midbass. The mounting depth is only 3.5" deep and it can handle 200 watts @ 8 ohms.

The $125/driver is pretty high but I think it will be worth it.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

I listened to those briefly in another forum member's car and wasn't really all that impressed.

Could have been the install/tuning though.

 

[NCHEVYHEVN 10+ year member]

I listened to those briefly in another forum member's car and wasn't really all that impressed.
Could have been the install/tuning though.

Really? What didn't you like about them?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

From what I listened to of them, I didn't really like the tonality.

But, again, I'll caution that this could have been related to install/tuning issues.

Also, it was a 2-way setup and not a 3-way.

So, I guess take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[NCHEVYHEVN 10+ year member]

From what I listened to of them, I didn't really like the tonality.
But, again, I'll caution that this could have been related to install/tuning issues.

Also, it was a 2-way setup and not a 3-way.

So, I guess take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Hmm, I think I may just end up trying them. They were speaking pretty good of them over on diymobileaudio and the 3.5" mounting depth is sounding really good. I could maybe get away with a factory door panel...maybe.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Winslow said he heard from someone who whom he trusts that they would be a great high effeciency midbass. That's obviously through the grapevine a bit, but considering who it's coming from, I'd be inclined to believe it. Just remember that B&C rates xmax 2-way, so that's only 4mm instead of 8. You wont' need anything near 200 watts at 8 ohms, 200 at 4 should suffice.