Help with Front Stage - Hybrid Mid/Tweeter? MD130 or ES-02 or..?

[AlStar250 10+ year member]

Hey guys, I need help with my front stage. Truck is 06 Dodge Ram Mega Cab and I added pics to give you an idea of what it looks like. Stock it has 6x9's in the doors and 3.5" in the dash, powered off the HU Pioneer AVH-X4600BT is actually sounds decent for "stock" LOL. The fact that the mids/highs are up on the dash, it actually images better than if everything were in the door. I'm going with Dynaudio MW170's in each, well deadened, door powered by an Arc Audio KS300.2 - I want to know what you guys thought about the dash. I've been eyeing the Dyn MD130's, as I heard them about 5years ago in an active 2way system w/ MW170's as well, and it sounded GREAT. BUT... They were mounted close to each other. Also they are $600 new which is a stretch for me. I have been looking at the CDT ES-02's for the dash. The fact that either will fire straight into the windshield, I wouldn't want anything harsh. Amp for either would be either an Arc FD2200 OR KS125.2 , DSP is an ARC PS8, X-over point would be about 2300hz (unless you guys think otherwise). I'd really like to use these locations if possible without "having" to build door pods/kick etc. Would putting either in the dash kill it? Do you guys have any other recommendations? Thanks

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[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

I would use a CDT 6x9 woofer in the door with either ES-02 2015 in the dash, crossed at 1 kHz, or the same woofers but HD-2 in the dash and WS-100i on MX-1000SX passives. 6x9s would be run active either way.

 

[AlStar250 10+ year member]

I would use a CDT 6x9 woofer in the door with either ES-02 2015 in the dash, crossed at 1 kHz, or the same woofers but HD-2 in the dash and WS-100i on MX-1000SX passives. 6x9s would be run active either way.

Funny that you mention CDT - That is what I had in my previous truck. CL-62 w/ Ex-450 x/o & TW-25S + UP-2100i w/those same WS-100i's - To be honest, it sounded good to me, I enjoyed it for the most part. Midrange was nice, but Mid-Bass was average at best. Also there was a degree of ear fatigue during longer listening sessions, and most everyone's finger was pointing to the TW-25 tweeter, and I had been told by several CDT users and dealers to go to the DRT-26 but I never had the chance. It may have been phase cancellation or lack of time alignment too. So in this build, why would I need upstage if 80% of the freq range is in the dash already I guess is what I'm thinking, and my guess is that you're recommending them to add that little bit of top end to help the ES-02. If I don't get what I'm looking for up top, then I'm just leaning towards a 3-way system, with a 3" mid in the dash, and a tweeter as close to it in the bottom of the A-Pillar as possible. The key for this build is all active, professionally tuned.

Now about those 6x9's - One of my favorite systems I've heard was an Image Dynamics build with 6x9's and horns. It was impressive. It's something I'd like to simulate with my 1st plan. I have never heard CDT 6x9's and have read mixed reviews on them in various places. I know mid-bass and mid-range is "typically" a give & take proposition. In a 3-way system, I'd love a set of pounding 6x9's in the doors playing from say 75-300hz, but which one would you recommend for the ES-02 in a 2-way system? Keep in mind they won't be in any built enclosure, just a well sealed door. Power is 180Wx2. I'm starting to doubt the ES-02 in that stock dash location as well, firing up into the windshield...

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

Funny that you mention CDT - That is what I had in my previous truck. CL-62 w/ Ex-450 x/o & TW-25S + UP-2100i w/those same WS-100i's - To be honest, it sounded good to me, I enjoyed it for the most part. Midrange was nice, but Mid-Bass was average at best. Also there was a degree of ear fatigue during longer listening sessions, and most everyone's finger was pointing to the TW-25 tweeter, and I had been told by several CDT users and dealers to go to the DRT-26 but I never had the chance. It may have been phase cancellation or lack of time alignment too. So in this build, why would I need upstage if 80% of the freq range is in the dash already I guess is what I'm thinking, and my guess is that you're recommending them to add that little bit of top end to help the ES-02. If I don't get what I'm looking for up top, then I'm just leaning towards a 3-way system, with a 3" mid in the dash, and a tweeter as close to it in the bottom of the A-Pillar as possible. The key for this build is all active, professionally tuned.

Based on my own experience and of customers, CDT's 2" mid/tweeters(ES-02 and HD-2) need help from a separate tweeter to accurately reproduce music at a high enough level of output to get exciting and fun. At low and moderate volume settings they're good. ES-02 2015 is a new improved model that addresses the treble, but it just came out and I haven't yet heard it. If ES-02 in the dash is paired with WS-100i, with both driver pairs run active, I recommend using a low pass filter on ES-02 to make it a midrange. The UpStage crossovers do this at around 8 kHz on a steep slope. If you have room for a 3" that may give you a little more fullness to the midrange.

I strongly recommend DRT-26 over TW-25. It's a vast improvement. WS-100i is the same tweeter as DRT-26, but in a different housing. If you could try those in place of TW-25 I think you'd be surprised, but I realize that's not an option for you today. Time alignment is not much of a "fix" for tweeters as the frequencies they play are not affected much by it. Some, but not nearly as much as mid-woofers. You'll get constructive and deconstructive comb filtering regardless of where the tweeters are placed and aimed, so in a fully custom build you want to test different tweeter locations and aiming. Putting the tweeters at ear level aiming to an imaginary point in the center of the interior might work for you. I experimented with that some time ago with TW-25 and DRT-26. The spherical pods were spaced away from the pillars a bit. It's ugly but very effective.

Now about those 6x9's - One of my favorite systems I've heard was an Image Dynamics build with 6x9's and horns. It was impressive. It's something I'd like to simulate with my 1st plan. I have never heard CDT 6x9's and have read mixed reviews on them in various places. I know mid-bass and mid-range is "typically" a give & take proposition. In a 3-way system, I'd love a set of pounding 6x9's in the doors playing from say 75-300hz, but which one would you recommend for the ES-02 in a 2-way system? Keep in mind they won't be in any built enclosure, just a well sealed door. Power is 180Wx2. I'm starting to doubt the ES-02 in that stock dash location as well, firing up into the windshield...

CDT just recently finished up improved 6x9 woofers that are ready to ship today. It's called MX-69, and it's sold only by MX-Designs dealers. This is what I recommend for use in doors to match with ES-02.