Help me complete supporting mods for my first system. MB Quart 1500 Sundown E12

[JerDerv]

This will be my first ever attempt at a decent stereo. Im learning as i go, i should have asked for advice a bit sooner. Better late than never i suppose. Heres what i have purchased so far.

1992 Volvo 240 80amp alt

(1) MB Quart DSC1500.1 Class D Doing ~750w rms @ 2ohm load

(1) Sundown Audio E12 dvc 4ohm wired for 2ohm load {Currently in a prefab 1.5cuft ported 35hz}

(1) MB Quart OA600.4 Class SQ Doing maybe 60w rms @ 4ohm

(2) Powerbass s-5c rated 50w rms 4ohm

(2) Powerbass s-6c rated 70w rms 4ohm

Wiring:

DSC1500.1 Stinger "4ga" OFC 150a fuse same size and spec wire for ground.

OA600.4 Raptor "4ga" CCA 80a fuse same size and spec wire for ground.

Subwoofer speaker wire 12ga kicker tinned OFC

Speaker wire 16ga Hitron OFC

Future plans involve possibly running the DSC1500 @ 1ohm to an SA12 and shooting for 1000-1200w rms. Already contemplating running the front channel off the OA600.4 at 2ohms to a 3-way setup. 150w rms @ 2ohms (doubt it but yeah)

So my setup could range from 1000-1800w rms. With that being said, i dont ride around blastin' all the time. If anything i would say about 70% of the time i have it at low to medium volume levels. Its that %30 that i find extreme joy in having a setup that i can crank up and have it hit hard. I also find a lot of pleasure in making the most out of a tight budget. Im trying to keep this as affordable as possible.

My questions are:

1. What battery? XS D1200? Kinetik HC1800? Would like to keep this at or under $200
   
2. What size for "BIG 4"? Is 0ga mandatory at the power levels im contemplating running?
   
3. Will a decent battery provide enough buffer to allow me to continue using the 80amp alt or would my setup require HO? If so, are there any cars i should keep an eye out for in the junkyard?
   
4. Any issues with my setup that i do not seem to be aware of?
   

Hoping there are some mature experienced forum members that can help point me in the right direction, thanks guys!

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[mylows10 5,000+ posts]

Use 0 gauge as primary power. To a distro block then 4gauge ofc sub wire should be at least 10 gauge the big 3 or 4. 0 gauge wire. And yes you'll need a ho alt. 80 amps isn't gonna cut it for long

 

[fly_marlin]

1. Is this stuff all hooked up or are you yet to hook it up? Play around with it once installed, turn headlights on. If they dim, you would want to get an HO alternator and upgrade the big 3. Battery would be the last thing to upgrade as far as that goes.

2. I think big 3 runs are pretty short, so it wouldn't be too expensive to just do 0 gauge or even 00 gauge wire. This will allow you for easier upgrades later, if needed.

3. If your alternator is subpar, the only thing a deep cycle battery would do is allow you to start your car. Deep cycle batteries can be "killed" many times before needing to be replaced. So you don't need to change it every time you overwhelm your electrical system.

Are those powerbass speakers components or coax?

Problem: your ground wiring description. First, I've heard bad things about raptor wire a while back, not sure whether this still holds. Second, ground wire needs to be as short as possible and therefore, does not need to be fused. I suggest you also use OFC wire for ground, not CCA.

I'm actually pretty curious about new MB stuff - let me know how that works out for you. I've been eyeing their reference line.

 

[JerDerv]

Use 0 gauge as primary power. To a distro block then 4gauge ofc sub wire should be at least 10 gauge the big 3 or 4. 0 gauge wire. And yes you'll need a ho alt. 80 amps isn't gonna cut it for long

Thank you, i suspect you recommend the 0ga primary power because im contemplating eventually running the dsc at 1500. I do see how running a larger power at that point would be a good idea. Would you agree that the stinger 4ga ofc is sufficient for running the DSC1500 at 2ohms around 750w rms?

What kinda of alternator output would i need. I am a fabricator and could easily add a second 80amp alt if 160amps would be more like what i need.

1. Is this stuff all hooked up or are you yet to hook it up? Play around with it once installed, turn headlights on. If they dim, you would want to get an HO alternator and upgrade the big 3. Battery would be the last thing to upgrade as far as that goes.2. I think big 3 runs are pretty short, so it wouldn't be too expensive to just do 0 gauge or even 00 gauge wire. This will allow you for easier upgrades later, if needed.

3. If your alternator is subpar, the only thing a deep cycle battery would do is allow you to start your car. Deep cycle batteries can be "killed" many times before needing to be replaced. So you don't need to change it every time you overwhelm your electrical system.

Are those powerbass speakers components or coax?

Problem: your ground wiring description. First, I've heard bad things about raptor wire a while back, not sure whether this still holds. Second, ground wire needs to be as short as possible and therefore, does not need to be fused. I suggest you also use OFC wire for ground, not CCA.

I'm actually pretty curious about new MB stuff - let me know how that works out for you. I've been eyeing their reference line.

I have been installing stuff when i can. I use to have some Walmart pioneer coaxial up front and an RE X 12 in the back at 250w from a memphis amp. The amp died after a few years and i gave the sub to my girlfriend and bought her an alpine amp. I installed the sundown e12 with an mb quart ONYX1000.1 at 2 ohms. I tuned it with an O-scope and got nice waves. The amp wouldnt do anything over 510w without clipping. They advertise 750. Thats a big difference in my opinion. After running that amp for about 2 weeks properly tuned it went up in smoke. I got my money back as the store owner looked at my setup and determined the amp was simply defective. Thats when i ordered the DSC1500 off ebay one of mb quarts older more proven amps. Its not here yet and i have not run the sub at anything over 500w rms yet.

I actually installed the OA600.4 today. Currently just powering the front two powerbass s-5cs' which are components. I have the tweeters on the dash firing up at the windsheild and the woofers are mounted at the top front of the door panel. I am extremely pleased with how well a set of $40 components and a $100 amp can sound. I have the same components from power bass but with a 6.5" woofer for the rear doors. I have not O-scoped this amp yet but ill let you know what the real rms power is when i do. Does any body know what kind of line voltage i should be running to the amp??

If doing the big 3 the right way is by using 0ga then thats what ill do, i appreciate the input.

So a big battery or several batterys does not make up for a small alternator? Good to know ill start looking into how i will generate more amperage. What kind of amperage output should i be shooting for?

My ground cables are not fused i can see how that was unclear in my first post. The raptor wire is ******. Its not really 4ga more like 6ga and the fact its cca doesnt help. However i happened upon it cheap and had minimal experience at the time. If i could do power wires all over again i would run 0ga to a distribution block like mentioned by mylows.

Im not sure what it is about MBquart i just want to like their stuff so im giving it a shot. I think the 1000.1 i had was a lemon.

 

[fly_marlin]

I like their name, but not sure I'm willing to try their stuff as it seems that for a little bit more you an always get something better. I also like 0ga to dist block and 4ga from there. That's how my setup is run. Batteries do not generate electrical current, the alternator does. Your current alternator would be good for a 1000W system at most. Don't forget, air conditioning, lights, etc all need power as well. You should estimate about 80A per 1000W. I've heard mechman alternators are pretty solid, get a quote and see what he can do for you. If you're running under 1000W worth of equipment, see if you need to replace anything. For all you know, it may hold up just fine. You'll save a few hundred on that if you don't have to upgrade.

 

[los33 10+ year member]

As far as everything has mentioned it is all correct.

But i do suggest upgrade to a xs power d1200.. 200$ budget is no problem if you use regular online sites like sonicelectrix or ebay..

Then if you do have the capability to upgrading to a high output alternator then you should do atleast 150 amps or more if you want to stay in the 1500-2000 watts range including vehicle stock usage (headlights, lights,dash).

Since your model of car is not very popular as far as car audio so finding a high output alternator is gonna be hard.

So if you can fabricate a alternator bracket to hold 2 alternators then two 80 amp alternators will do fine so long as you do not go full tilt during idle since these will be oem type alts. You also need to find the tightest serpentine belt you can find that will fit both alts pulleys.

Once you have done all the above then all you can do is continue upgrading. In the future if you notice voltage drop or dimming of lights then you might want to consider purchasing a secondary large battery for the back by the amp like a xs power D3400.

 

[JerDerv]

I can certainly add another alternator or convert to a HO. Id rather build something than buy something. Running two of the stock 80a ones seems ideal as they are already fitted with the appropriate pulley size. Also my car is old enough that it uses v belts not a surp. Thankfully it utilizes two v-belts this was both to ensure sufficient traction on the pulleys but also to add a level of fail safe. If one belt breaks i still have another to get me home. 160amps should be plenty for anything im trying to do. Keep in mind this car has no AC uses a mechanical radiator fan and has some very straight forward electronics. I think my stereo will be happy to receive a large percentage of the alternators output.

I have decided i will purchase a good size battery for under the hood and upgrade all my power wires. After that step i will monitor voltage and contemplate the second alternator installation. If i determine it a necessity ill certainly post up some pictures of how i do it.

I do need to continue narrowing down the battery selection. If i could do a battery and the 0 gauge big three for around 200 i could do both this month. I need to go hit up the junkyards and look for some BMWs with rear batterys that have 0 gauge ran to the front.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[fly_marlin]

For the big 3, see if one of the supporting vendors can offer you a good price. You can also use knukonceptz, which is what a lot of people here, including myself, use. To do this for 200...hmmm Autozone has Duralast Platinum AGM battery, see how much it is for your car. I was also recommended Diehard Platinum battery, which has an awesome warranty. It's sold at Sears.

 

[JerDerv]

Appreciate the input. It would be nice to do it all for around 200. And i can see how that gets tricky. The last thing i want to do is do it one way to save a few bucks and then end up upgrading later on because i didnt just go for it the first time. That costs more than just going for it.

Im looking at the Kinetik HC1800-BLU and the XS Power D1200. According to some basic mathematical estimations the ideal battery for my current setup would have 53-61 Amp Hours. The kinetik and XS being the same price, Kinetik will do 75AH while XS only does 44AH. Am i missing something here? Is this one of those numbers that some brands will just flat out lie about? If the listed numbers are factual then the choice is obvious. You get more bang for your buck with Kinetik batteries.

 

[los33 10+ year member]

Appreciate the input. It would be nice to do it all for around 200. And i can see how that gets tricky. The last thing i want to do is do it one way to save a few bucks and then end up upgrading later on because i didnt just go for it the first time. That costs more than just going for it.
Im looking at the Kinetik HC1800-BLU and the XS Power D1200. According to some basic mathematical estimations the ideal battery for my current setup would have 53-61 Amp Hours. The kinetik and XS being the same price, Kinetik will do 75AH while XS only does 44AH. Am i missing something here? Is this one of those numbers that some brands will just flat out lie about? If the listed numbers are factual then the choice is obvious. You get more bang for your buck with Kinetik batteries.

Dpends on wether your looking for a starter battery or power battery (secondary). The D1200 is a small battery.

You should try and fit the biggest battery poissble under the hood.

 

[JerDerv]

Okay then, heres what i have decided on so far. Kinetik HC2400 under the hood 10ft of KnuKonceptz KCA 0Ga for the big 3. Will be about $300 all said and done right. While im running the E12 at 750w ill continue using my stinger 4ga power wire. Next month ill pick up more KnuKonceptz 0ga to run back into a distribution block. This should be fine for a 1050w rms system. Ill do the alternator upgrade when i run the DSC1500.1 at 1 ohm.

Today i completed all the wiring to the powerbass components up front and spent a fair amount of time playing with filters, head unit settings, line converter settings, amp settings, etc... I feel i am about 75% of the way there as far as dialing in the tuning but its hard to tell without a sub. I also dont even have the 6.5s in the back yet. I ordered some carpeted mdf spacer rings to make them fairly straight forward to mount in my rear doors so that should happen soon enough. The DSC1500.1 gets here on Monday! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I really need to choose how i want to do sound deadening. I will be removing all the interior and doing the entire car most likely with closed cell foam and mass loaded vinyl. Again ill be attempting to do it on a budget but i wont cut corners if it means making big sacrifices in end result.

 

[JerDerv]

Amps are in, subs in, front components are in. Need to install rear comps and waiting for the HC2400 and BIG 3.

One thing i havent quite got figured out yet is line level settings and gain settings. I havent had the O-scope available for my use and wont for a while. Im using a line level convert for a quad cable rca to the 4 channel amp. Im using the head unit 2v rca outputs for the subwoofer amp. I think i have the line level converter set too high as with lots of speaker volume i get not so much bass. I think my 4channel amp is probably getting more like 4v or maybe even 6v and my subwoofer amps only getting 2.

Im tempted to turn the gain up on the dsc1500 to pump more power to the sub to balance out the sound but im worried about undetected clipping. I currently have the gain set at a little over halfway. The dial reads lowest to highest 6v to 0.2v. Half way would be 3.1v. Three quarters of the way up would be about 1.65v halfway between haflway and three quarters of the way would be 2.375 and this is roughly where i have the gain set right now.

Unfortunately to get the bass level im looking for i currently have the remote for the amp all the way up and i have the head unit sub output on setting 8 out of 10. I realize this probably increases the output voltage from the head unit.... i think. Anyways, with the head unit sub output setting at 8 the remote for the amp maxed and the gain on the sub amp at over halfway im just getting the sound i want. Is it okay to have the headunit sub setting so high along with the gain being set relativity high?

The amp didnt get warm but i could smell the sub pretty good on a few songs with long heavy bass. Im probably pushing this e-12 further than it wants to go. Or im clipping the **** out of the signal...

I really wish i had that o-scope

 

[JerDerv]

Zero headlight dimming 14.4v at idle. Amps are staying much cooler and the bass hits harder. Im going to buy a voltage gauge to have in my dash so i can constantly monitor my voltage.

The battery was not a drop in replacement i need to reroute the intake and fabricate a battery tie down. With the hood closed i can push down on the sheet metal and feel the hood make contact with the ground terminal. The power terminal has about an inch of air gap above it. I may insulate the hood in this area just to be safe.

 

[gstokes]

A 1,000 Watt load at 13.8 source voltage requires 72 amps and you've only got 80 to begin with not including required current to operate the engine and accessories, with an 80 amp alternator you have roughly 60 amps to spare driving in daytime and it's not raining, with 60 available amps and 13.8 volts you have the potential for 828 watts, at 100% efficiency of course and the amplifier is NOT 1005 efficient so subtract some more power digits..

Even with 1/0 gauge cable you will have almost 1 volt drop from source to load so, 12.8 x 60 amps = 768 watts.

A properly sized and mounted capacitor will fill the gaps in line voltage when the bass hits.

Don't waste your money on Tinned Copper, OFC is better but still overkill, plain ole copper will serve you well..

An 1800 watt system would require an 140 amp alternator, just for the sound system..

 

[JerDerv]

Checked my battery before leaving work today. It was resting at 13.7v and at idle was 14.55v. Im pretty happy with my setup, but i wont be leaving it alone. Ill slowly keep upgrading swapping things out here and there. I really want to try a different enclosure.