Help! I'm overwhelmed! (And I'm a newb!)

Im not doing my math in the wrong direction. You are claiming that if 2 speakers wired together create a load that means the amplifier outputs 800 watts, 800 watts is 'flowing thru the wires' so each speaker sees 800 watts. Again, for like the 4th time, this is completely incorrect. The two speakers wired together created the final impedance the amp sees, and thus share the power created between them in a ratio parallel to each one's individual impedance. Since each speaker will be half of the final impedance to the amp, each speaker will receive half the power created (400 watts, not 800). If each one received 800 watts, 1,600 watts of power would need to be produced.
Ok, I'll pretend you're correct and follow up with a 2 simple questions;

1.If an amplifier is producing 800w at the speaker output and each speaker wired to that same output only sees 400w; where did the extra current go? Did it turn into light, become radiation, heat? Where did it go?

2. Is this a 240v outlet or is it a 60v outlet?

electrical-outlet-001.jpg


The current capabilities of the circuit remains constant whether you use the outlet or plug in a mess of extension cords & power strips. So, how much does the voltage change? Does it become 60v when you plug in a clock radio & coffee pot or does it become a 240v?

 
Ok, I'll pretend you're correct and follow up with a 2 simple questions;
1.If an amplifier is producing 800w at the speaker output and each speaker wired to that same output only sees 400w; where did the extra current go? Did it turn into light, become radiation, heat? Where did it go?
800w/2 speakers=400w per speaker. Each speaker sees 400w. There is no extra current.

Ive got to give props to Holic for staying this cool.

 
Ok, I'll pretend you're correct and follow up with a 2 simple questions;
1.If an amplifier is producing 800w at the speaker output and each speaker wired to that same output only sees 400w; where did the extra current go? Did it turn into light, become radiation, heat? Where did it go?

2. Is this a 240v outlet or is it a 60v outlet?

The current capabilities of the circuit remains constant whether you use the outlet or plug in a mess of extension cords & power strips. So, how much does the voltage change? Does it become 60v when you plug in a clock radio & coffee pot or does it become a 240v?
I hate to be a pedant, but that appears to be neither a 240v outlet or 60v outlet. It's a modern 120v 15a outlet. Maximum supported watts 1800 and generally accepted maximum for electrical code is 1440 (80% max). Anything plugged into it will see 120 volts. Most electrical devices will use step down transformers to get a usable voltage out of it, but will create load via amps. So yes, if you have 10 TVs plugged in, they'll all "see" 120v but may not use it depending on their needs, and the load will vary at the outlet depending on how many of those TVs are turned on.

I guess you'd call that parallel wiring. If you plugged the TVs into each other (not possible I know), then each successive TV would see less and less voltage. This is in series.

 
Ok, I'll pretend you're correct and follow up with a 2 simple questions;
1.If an amplifier is producing 800w at the speaker output and each speaker wired to that same output only sees 400w; where did the extra current go? Did it turn into light, become radiation, heat? Where did it go?
You seem to be a fairly intelligent person, yet you make the same fundamental mistake over and over again, even with me explaining your mistake every step of the way.

The two speakers wired together create the final ohm load the amp sees. Since the speakers share this impedance, they also share the power. If your theory were correct, power would be being created from nothing. As in, your 800 watt amplifier creates 800 watts... power travels down wire to both speakers, showing each sub 800 watts. In your scenario, both speakers produce 800 watts worth of acoustic power. Where did that 1600 watts come from?

 

---------- Post added at 07:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

 

Ive got to give props to Holic for staying this cool.
I dont see any reason to get angry. We are having a civil discussion, albeit it repetitive.

 
You seem to be a fairly intelligent person, yet you make the same fundamental mistake over and over again, even with me explaining your mistake every step of the way.
The two speakers wired together create the final ohm load the amp sees. Since the speakers share this impedance, they also share the power. If your theory were correct, power would be being created from nothing. As in, your 800 watt amplifier creates 800 watts... power travels down wire to both speakers, showing each sub 800 watts. In your scenario, both speakers produce 800 watts worth of acoustic power. Where did that 1600 watts come from?

 

---------- Post added at 07:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 PM ----------

 

I dont see any reason to get angry. We are having a civil discussion, albeit it repetitive.
Ahh. I see what you mean. Miscommunication.

If we were BSing over a beer or two this conversation/discussion would probably go a bit better. A great orator I am not. If I can think of a better way to explain myself, I'll PM you.

 
Long story short if 2 Subs are hooked up to an 800 watt amp, each sub will receive 400 watts of power.
This was solved hours ago. There's really no need for you to keep the discussion going, especially since it got pretty off topic(not too far off, since the OP was asking questions about power and ohm loads and everything, and they were trying to solve a contradiction). I guess it wasn't really even off topic. Oh well.

Anyway, to the OP: considering you know enough about computers to build(maybe? You said you sell them, so I'm making an assumption) them, you must have some kind of passion for electronics. Car audio, and audio in general, is a great thing to get into. Music is really great, especially when your car is able to reproduce the music you love so much.

Unless you're just into bass. Then, it's fun to be loud as **** and knock your rear view mirror off. Don't worry about being overwhelmed. I think most "newbs" that come into car audio the right way(not getting everything installed by Best Buy, and taking the time to learn the theory behind things) feel overwhelmed. The same could be said for any hobby, really. Everything's got complex theory behind it.

 
BnGRacing , also your claims about gain setting are incorrect
gains many times can affect your systems loudness, just ask people around here. many people here do have O scopes, myself including, and know how to use them. in fact, Amazon carries them for about $150

some good accurate reading..

JL Audio - Car Audio Systems

JL Audio - Car Audio Systems
Follow those JL guidelines and set the gains. Now, hook up your o-scope and look at the graph...see any clipping? You will...lots of it. JL's regulated amps can "hide" clipping very well as that's what make a good amp a good amp.

Gas the amp the old fashioned way using an o-scope and you'll wonder where all the volume went. The amp will still be maxing out, however, your average power has gone down. That's the "volume" people often think of when they think a system is loud. Personally, I like a lot of headroom. I want a whisper to sound like a whisper and a kettle drum to sound like a bomb just went off. Setting the input sensitivity to compensated for a desired volume makes everything sound compressed...to me at least.

It's also important to keep in mind that some amplifiers are very tightly regulated and can be set up w/a volt meter. Other amps cannot be set up this way, the output channels need to see a load and output can vary based on the vehicle's voltage. At rest, idle, and the RPM in which the alternator is at maximum charge will yield 3 different voltage readings on an unregulated amp.

JL is a good company with many bright minds & great product. But their 'way' of doing things, such as the links you've provided, should only be applied to certain products and looked at as a 'general' guide. It's a way of doing something that'll work for most people most of the time. In that regard, setting your radio at 3/4 volume and listening for the woofers to clip also works for most people most of the time.

Just b/c it works for most people most of the time does not mean it's the correct way...to me at least.

 
All those numbers are marketing gimmicks...in the real world they mean little.
Let me start off by asking you a question; what does a watt sound like? Even trickier; what does an ohm sound like?

...

Speakers do not have 'watts'. A watt is a unit of measurement for work performed, much like horsepower. Do the tires on your truck have a horsepower rating? No, that'd be silly. Well, speakers having wattage ratings is quite silly in the same way. The thing that'll kill a speaker is heat (or an old/dull phillips bit). How do you rate how much heat a speaker can cope with? Well, all the manufacturers have their own system while others just slap whatever number they think will move more product.

With amplifiers, the best way to figure out how much work they can perform (watts) is by looking at the fuses on the case and doing some quick math. If an amp has 2x20A fuses on it (40A), the most work it can possibly do will be around 400w. Simply add a zero to the end and you get an idea. Why a zero? Well, more math; Voltage x Current = watts. Your amp will probably only see about 13v and since amplifiers are not perfectly efficient (get warm), you can round that down to 10. So 10v * 40A = 400 watts. Forget that CEA crap and the sticker on the box.

Impedance is basically a load the amplifier sees. Think of it as one of those treadmills where you can adjust the ramp angle. A brisk walk at 4mph is a breeze right? Now adjust the angle on the treadmill. Now you're breaking a sweat. You're not going any faster, you're just being asked to perform more work to keep you stationary and not fly off the back of the treadmill. The incline is a greater load just like 2ohm is a greater load than 4ohm.

2ohm is not better than 4ohm...I'd argue the opposite actually, but that's another discussion.

...

You asked if the system is 'balanced'. Well...what does it sound like? Do you like it? If you do, it's balanced...it's really as simple as that. Do not get caught up in all the numbers & specs of 12v products as it almost never translates over to what you hear. Your ears will never lie to you, so let them make the final decision based on what they think instead of what you read on a message board or in product lit.

....

Will your charging system handle the new system? Go back to those fuses on the amp. How many and how big are they? Remember I said to add them up and basically put a zero to find the amp's power capabilities? Divide that number in half...that's the max draw the amp will have when playing music playing at 100% volume. Do you listen to the radio that loud? Probably not as deaf people don't normally shop for audio equipment.

Your charging system & factory ground strap will be more than fine for your setup. You can spend the $100 or so on battery terminals, 1/0 gauge, rings, etc and I can almost guarantee you will not hear a difference. With good power wire of adequate gauge and a proper install, there will be no problem.

As far as wiring; RTFM. Your subwoofers should have come with a basic wiring diagram for various applications (1/2/3 woofers and their various impedance). Follow that and if your subs are DVC 4ohm woofers and you basically have 2 choices on how to wire them to the amp (4ohm or 1ohm) ALWAYS go with the higher impedance. You will not make 4x the power at 1ohm than you would at 4ohm. You'll just roast something inside the amp b/c that proverbial treadmill will kick it in the groin.

Remember I said heat kills speakers? It'll kill an amp too. Just like the incline on a treadmill will make you sweat, a lower impedance does the same thing to an amp. Push it too far and it lets out the smoke.
yeah....you have a very loose grip on this stuff, dont try to help anyone, most of what you said was straight up retarded.

and dont arguewith holic, he's 100% correct which is always the case. he's smart as fawk and your knowledge of all of this is very......cattywompus

 
yeah....you have a very loose grip on this stuff, dont try to help anyone, most of what you said was straight up retarded.
and dont arguewith holic, he's 100% correct which is always the case. he's smart as fawk and your knowledge of all of this is very......cattywompus
Are you trying to have a discussion with me or are you brown nosing another poster? I can't tell.

 
Can't convince OP on what is right and wrong not going to try. Your amp will work just fine, if you want more power you can certainly get a bigger amp for your subs they can handle it. I recommend building your own box...plenty of people here that can help u design it just give them the space you have. The Big 3 is a good idea it will help your vehicles electrical it does no harm, and might help prevent your headlights from dimming when subs are playing. Stock electrical should be fine. You can make things better with another batter or a HO alternator but that starts to get pricey and you should be just fine off stock.

 
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