Going Active...need raw driver suggestions.

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

http://www.meniscusaudio.com/
wouldn't hurt to stop by and see if you can listen to any of the drivers.

Thanks, lots of nice brands.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[iceteebone 5,000+ posts]

their prices seem competitive with all the other diy retailers

 

[alphakenny1 10+ year member]

Well, its going to be a 4 way digital network via the P9 combo. This is where my knowledge tapers off a bit. So the crossover points are not an issue as the P9 is very flexible in that regard. Having no prior experience with raw drivers in a DIY active setup I have no clue as to what sounds best. Dome mid sounds great as far as flexibility of install but I have never heard a dome mid so I have no frame of reference there. Right now I have MTX Black Gold 4s 6.5s and tweets. I have NO complaints with the mids and midbass but I never really liked the tweet.
So I drew from your statement that in your opinion a mid should handle as much of the frequencies as possible?? Is this because most of music lies in the mid range or do you have another reason for this??

yes i want my midrange to have a wide frequency range due to a few reasons. a lot actually to do with reducing the path length difference (PLD). with a shortened PLD your staging and imaging will be much improved assuming that your midranges will be installed in kicks.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

yes i want my midrange to have a wide frequency range due to a few reasons. a lot actually to do with reducing the path length difference (PLD). with a shortened PLD your staging and imaging will be much improved assuming that your midranges will be installed in kicks.

Yes, I am definitely installing in kicks. I'm just up in the air on whether to use domes or cones. I guess a wide frquency response is what I should be focusing on instead of speaker type.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

There are certainly no rules. The 4" cones I'm using now are playing 420hz 18db HP. I can play them 120hz 12db no problems. They simply sound better from an integration and imaging standpoint at that xover point , versus playing down to 200hz or so.

They are in the Kicks, with a 8" midbass driver 5" from them at the bottom corner of my door- which are LP ~ 250hz 18db. You'll find in many cases a good reason to underlap the 300-400hz area as its boosted by the car environment.

Also playing actively with a midbass, you'll soon find out that when you bandpass a driver....and it does not at least cover a range of 2- 2.5 octaves(you want to double the frequency at least twice from its high pass point)- it affects immensely the overall output of the driver.

So IMO if your midbass driver is on the same vacinity/plane your midrange will still sound like its coming from the kicks as the lower frqs become unlocalizable.

So instead of dwelling on 'pathlength differences' its certainly more important for me to use a driver based on its tonal characteristics. For example the DLS IR3 midrange has been in MANY SQ competition winning vehicles, regarless of its lower register issues. Scott Buwalda even did well with a door midbass, dome midrange in kicks, a-pillar tweets. Its all about integration.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

There are certainly no rules. The 4" cones I'm using now are playing 420hz 18db HP. I can play them 120hz 12db no problems. They simply sound better from an integration and imaging standpoint at that xover point , versus playing down to 200hz or so.
They are in the Kicks, with a 8" midbass driver 5" from them at the bottom corner of my door- which are LP ~ 250hz 18db. You'll find in many cases a good reason to underlap the 300-400hz area as its boosted by the car environment.

Also playing actively with a midbass, you'll soon find out that when you bandpass a driver....and it does not at least cover a range of 2- 2.5 octaves(you want to double the frequency at least twice from its high pass point)- it affects immensely the overall output of the driver.

So IMO if your midbass driver is on the same vacinity/plane your midrange will still sound like its coming from the kicks as the lower frqs become unlocalizable.

So instead of dwelling on 'pathlength differences' its certainly more important for me to use a driver based on its tonal characteristics. For example the DLS IR3 midrange has been in MANY SQ competition winning vehicles, regarless of its lower register issues. Scott Buwalda even did well with a door midbass, dome midrange in kicks, a-pillar tweets. Its all about integration.

Now I'm both enlightened and confused at the same time. I'm thinking I will try my 6.5s in the doors if my doors can handle it. Then putting my 4s and tweets in the kicks. If my doors cannot handle such a driver I will have to think of something else.

 

[alphakenny1 10+ year member]

of course its all about integration but i was maybe suggesting a speaker that has a good wide range to give him flexibility for "integration" in his car. if you get a dome, you are pretty much limited to 500hz, maybe 400hz depending on speaker. with a cone like you said you can play down to 120 if you choose. but for your application 420 is what suits you best. flexbility is always nice.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

of course its all about integration but i was maybe suggesting a speaker that has a good wide range to give him flexibility for "integration" in his car. if you get a dome, you are pretty much limited to 500hz, maybe 400hz depending on speaker. with a cone like you said you can play down to 120 if you choose. but for your application 420 is what suits you best. flexbility is always nice.

I guess I have alot of pondering to do. I will first buy a newer and better set of tweets. I also will check the doors and see if they can handle 6.5s without too much fabrication. After I know if my doors can handle it I will then have a better idea where to go from there.

 

[azbass 5,000+ posts]

With a set of MD142s and MD102s? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

shhhh. thats for me....

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

of course its all about integration but i was maybe suggesting a speaker that has a good wide range to give him flexibility for "integration" in his car. if you get a dome, you are pretty much limited to 500hz, maybe 400hz depending on speaker. with a cone like you said you can play down to 120 if you choose. but for your application 420 is what suits you best. flexbility is always nice.

That's not always the case.

People have had success using the DLS dome mid down to 315hz, for example.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

So instead of dwelling on 'pathlength differences' its certainly more important for me to use a driver based on its tonal characteristics. ......Scott Buwalda even did well with a door midbass, dome midrange in kicks, a-pillar tweets. Its all about integration.

Most of the people I'm aware of with great success using midbass in doors are time delaying the midbass to match the kickpanel mounted speakers. I believe Buwalda did this aswell.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

Most of the people I'm aware of with great success using midbass in doors are time delaying the midbass to match the kickpanel mounted speakers. I believe Buwalda did this aswell.

compromises

He'll be alright with the P9. I certainly do not like t/a on my midbasses as it hinders a bit dynamics, so lately just i t/a every other driver and live with the end result. Its certainly there should i need to compete with the setup...but you know....there was a time when a system was about being FUN....hehe...

 

[alphakenny1 10+ year member]

That's not always the case.
People have had success using the DLS dome mid down to 315hz, for example.

yea thats about the only dome i've heard of that has had success playing that low. and not too many others can as well. i think the atc dome can play that low //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

but you know....there was a time when a system was about being FUN....hehe...

I know.....I think about that quite often actually //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[Big Dee 10+ year member]

Keep us updated if you go with it.

I am planning on doing the same thing as you, midbass in doors and the rest in kicks, so I'm curious as to how yours will turn out.

I'm going with some cones because I want to cross them low, I only want low non directional notes coming from the doors because then I can get away with not aiming the mids in the doors, I'll just put them in the stock locations. I am also going to deaden the doors heavily, did you deaden your doors yet?