Engine whine and ground loop fixes... take two


tipptop

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2011
19
0
Ireland
Hello all, just registered after seeing this thread and would like some advice before I try the rca ground mod.

First i'll describe my problem. I have a slight clicking/ticking noise from my front right tweet and mid. It is not present when running system on battery power, it only starts when engine is running and it is about 3 or 4 clicks a second at idle and increases in tempo with acceleration. So it is rev dependant. It is only audible when HU volume is turned completely down and is drowned out after 6 on the HU volume. My rear right tweet has no click but has an audible distortion compared to the rear left tweet which is working perfectly. The components on the left hand side of the car are all perfect and i'm very happy with the quality on the left side of the car (which unfortunately is the passenger side over here) but the components on the right hand side are doing my head in.

Please don't tell me to get my right ear checked out....

All the rca's are run together which leads me to believe its not an induced noise problem, as all speakers should have it then. Rca's are of course run opposite sides from all other cables. Another thing I noticed while checking over cabling for the 10th time was that fiddling (just manipulating them not plugging them in and out) with the rca plugs on the front channel on the amp made the clicking/ticking noise temporarlily dissappear?????????

I did the install myself and am a professional engineer but would probably call myself a novice audio installer. I had the battery disconnected when installing and was very careful in this respect. I must have disconnected and reconnected the battery 100 times while trying to troubleshoot this problem.

Does anyone who had a noise problem and fixed it with this rca ground mod know if my problem sounds like it might be fixed by doing the mod? Did all your speakers have noise before you did the mod? Or just some like me?

I'm ready to pull my hair out with this clicking. After reading this thread i'm also half thinking of just chucking the Pioneer in the bin. Pioneer have a rock solid reputation over here, along with alpine.

Can anyone explain why just the right hand side of the system is experiencing problems and not the left?

I have a pioneer DEH-7300BT, DLS UP5i front comps, DLS R5A rear comps, JL sub and a DLS RA50 amplifier which I just installed about 2 weeks ago. I'm using Audison RCA's. All my power and speaker wiring is well oversized for its application. Big 3 upgrade with 2ga cable. In short no expense was spared for cabling.

 

ItsAJeepThing

CarAudio.com Elite
10+ year member
Oct 13, 2010
626
5
Lincoln,NE
I had noisy speakers just last week when I installed a 2 - channel amp. I grounded my rca's and the difference was amazing. Grounding rca's is easy and doesn't take long so just try it and see if it works.

 

tipptop

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2011
19
0
Ireland
Ok little update....

I switched the rca's for front and rear on the back of the HU. There was no change, the clicking/ticking rev dependant noise was still coming from the front right mid and tweet. I was hoping that a problem with the HU or rca's would make the noise switch to the rear right mid and tweet. The noise stayed in the front right mid and tweet.

I then switched the speaker wiring at the amp for the left and right fronts and the noise changed from the front right mid and tweet to the front left mid and tweet. So my limited knowledge of this makes me think there is a problem with the amp itself. Anyone any ideas? If there is a problem with front right output channel, why does it only manifest itself when the engine is running? The system is crystal clear when running on battery power. I can't figure it out.

Any ideas/info appreciated.

Right after further T/S it appears that manipulating the fronts rca plugs at their entry to the amp has a direct effect on the noise. Just play with them a little and the noise appears and dissapears. I can move them in such a way to always have the noise or not have it.... However i manipulate them into a position where there is no noise and after a little drive the noise is back....

Should I open the amp and see if something is wrong?

Does anyone think the wrapping wire around the rca's will work on the amp end???? This is surely a grounding issue as its rev dependant and only present when the engine is running.

Maybe I should start a new thread.

 

tipptop

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2011
19
0
Ireland
Right I opened the amp, there is indeed some broken soldering that connects and disconnects as you move the rca receiver. Problem located, great. Now for the tricky bit, soldering with my shaky hands.

Delighted to have found the problem, seems like the plugs took at hit somehow and broke the connection, just on one side, which explains why one side is affected and not the other.

Hopefully I can fix it as my warranty is probably void for opening the amp...

 

tipptop

Junior Member
Oct 21, 2011
19
0
Ireland
Fixed!!! Absolutely [email protected] delighted.

Easy solder job in the end. Little plastic leg of the amp rca connector which holds it in place was broken too, a little contact adhesive later and plugs are steady in place and soldering won't be breaking again anyime soon.

So a BIIIIGGGGG sorry to Pioneer for doubting their design and connection methods... I knew I was uber careful with disconnecting battery ground when doing anything but I obviously hit the plugs hard enough to break it, maybe with a knee or foot or something.

 

martiandancer31

Front Towards Enemy
10+ year member
Nov 4, 2009
1,765
23
Los Angeles, CA
Fixed!!! Absolutely [email protected] delighted.
Easy solder job in the end. Little plastic leg of the amp rca connector which holds it in place was broken too, a little contact adhesive later and plugs are steady in place and soldering won't be breaking again anyime soon.

So a BIIIIGGGGG sorry to Pioneer for doubting their design and connection methods... I knew I was uber careful with disconnecting battery ground when doing anything but I obviously hit the plugs hard enough to break it, maybe with a knee or foot or something.
glad to hear it. It's those little things that can really drive you nuts in an install //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

alkabli

Junior Member
Oct 30, 2011
1
0
va
Hey guys... I had ground noise problem since i replace my HU Infinity (2000 Mitsubishi Montero) system with Kenwood and for sure i used METRA 70-7003 the ground RCA works like magic ... perfect.. thanks for all of you

 

hotpursuit

Junior Member
Jan 16, 2012
4
0
sudbury on
heres my issue. already have a full system then added two more coaxial speakers and anothjer four channel amp into the mix up graded my main wiring and added a distribution block. i have had zero issues with engine noise till now. only the two coaxial speakers have a whining noise only on start up and not every start up either. i have insulated rca's all amps are grounded independantly of each other. and only the new speakers are doing it. going to ground the deck to a larger ground and if that fails to work i'll ground the rca's any other ideas why i have spuratic signal interferance?

should also mention that i am running alpine cde 117 deck alpine mono block running 10" type -r two alpine 4 channels "(all v-powers) running 6.5 components 6.5" coaxials and 6x9 coaxials type-r's. just for reference

 

chris89

Junior Member
Feb 17, 2012
2
0
Columbia, USA
I'm running a DEH-3800MP to a 6x9 tang band which has an ohm rating of 6.5ohms. My 2 channel rca 300W amp is bridged to it. The RMS I think it like 75W per channel. So am I feed my tang band 6x9 the optimum power to get the most out of it? Anyway I have tons of whine and it's annoying. I'll try this now and post back. I do wanna dial in my sub and get it hitting louder and clearer.

cya

 

Tehgregzor

Enjoys loud noises.
10+ year member
May 22, 2005
1,438
0
Murray,KY
Good advice! I'll be re-running my RCA's and grounding my headunit better tomorrow. Little bit of whine here, pioneer 64BT.

 

chris89

Junior Member
Feb 17, 2012
2
0
Columbia, USA
I actually soldered a wire to each rca on the back of the heatunit then grounded to the unit with a washer. It seemed to fix some of the whine sort of. I mean it definetely sounds better. There is hardly any whine at all. However on ocassion it would still whine. So I think the ultimate issue is the ground at the amp is to the body. I guess the permanent fix is to run the ground to the battery ground. I wish I would've known when I installed the system to avoid this!!!!!

 

Louisiana_CRX

dem shoes......
5,000+ posts
10+ year member
Aug 22, 2006
39,529
475
Piney Hills of Louisiana
Piooner radios have a little internal fused circuit called a pico fuse when it pops...youll receive bad ignition whine...the ground wires on the rca help a little maybe 75% but its still there...to confirm this is your problem you can use a dmm and do a continuity test of your rca ground to the radio case if its open that your problem...get it fixed so you dont damage your amp and or speakers...this was caused by a hot swap of your rcas while deck had power on...when you plugged rcas to amp under power ...it grounded back through rcas popping this pico fuse to save your deck

 

SMFJ

Senior VIP Member
10+ year member
Nov 10, 2010
310
1
Albany, Georgia, United States
you just saved my radio and wallet. the old pioneer 4100ub thanks you. got a little ballsy today and ran my dual 1 sub in parallels on my q4.150 rears with the LPF. it didn't protect but in those 7 or 8 minutes my amp got hot as a ***** in heat so i cut everything off and let her cool off and ran every thing back to normal and as soon as i cut on my deck with volume at 00 i was getting awful engine and electrical squeals and whining. thought screwed my amp up back ran a 3.5mm to rcas from the iPhone and noise was gone. popped out the head unit and barely tapping the rcas could trigger the noise. grabbed a random piece of 18 gauge i had slid it between male and female rcas and as long as i physically touching the other end no noise at all. after reading this sticky i will be doing it correctly in the morning.

EVEN IF YOUR 2 OHM STABLE 4 CHANNEL WILL PUSH A SPEAKER AT .7OHM DON'T OR ELSE INCONVENIENCING ***** LIKE THIS HAPPENS. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/slap.gif.87520e8ca8e90076ac30e777c0de5331.gif Lesson learned.

 

shadow

Senior VIP Member
Jan 3, 2012
254
0
Dallas,Texas
Chalk up another one for ground'n RCA outs on head unit...

Drove me nuts (The whine).

Re ran rewired everything Audio yesterday when I got off work, nothing even got worse,,lol

So today when I got off work I grounded my RCA's , BAM !!! it fixed it....

Thanks for make'n the sticky guy's!

I read it awhile back, but was the last thing I tried...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

emusaurus322

Junior Member
May 12, 2012
1
0
san antonio
okay. need help here. i have an amp wired to all my speakers it just has a direct input from iphone for now. the problem im having is when i plug the iphone into a car charger it makes a loud pulsing through the speakers. it works perfectly clear if i dont have it on a charger so im assuming some sort of ground loop. it sounds like a fkn machine gun. but i dont know how to fix it.

 

plantinseeds

Banned
Jan 18, 2012
574
0
Rochester, MN
Last thing I tried was the RCA ground trick because I thought that was only for Pioneer headunits, but I just did it with my Kenwood KDC-x396 and it worked!

 

ewadz3006

CarAudio.com Elite
Jan 29, 2012
818
0
erie, PA
I cant get the whine to stop. I've done a few things that made it better but its still there.

the equipment- 2004 mercury mountaineer, Kenwood excelon 996, aq2200d on 2 sa 12's. aq 120.4 on factory speakers for now, have incriminator comp set but have been chasing alt whine so I haven't installed them yet. big three done in knu 1/0 ofc. a run of pos and neg to the back, distribution blocks (stinger) to the amps 1/0 on 2200 and 4 gauge to 120.4 Also have an old school mtx electronic crossover mtx rt01 i think (3 way). I have two runs of rca's running back to crossover (front and rear outputs).

I had power and rca's ran together, ran rca's down other side of car that helped a little. I grounded the rca's to the deck- that helped a little. ran a 18 gauge ground wire from the hu to the distribution block in the back. also tied all grounds together at hu.- not sure if that helped or not.

I think my next step is to run the amp straight off of a ipod or something. I have to find my adapter. if that doesnt work I will try new rca's? idk. my rca's are rockford fosgate twisted pair. I'm not sure if they are shielded.

Its not too loud and cant be noticed at med to high volume. but when two or more people are in the car and are talking its super annoying.

any more input would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sound-Man

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2012
6
0
Sioux City, IA
I have been reading this thread, and have not herd anyone talk about power location, as a cause for engine whine or ground loop problems.

I have found many whine, poping, or huming problems to be where the power wire for amps and inverters, where hooked to main fuse box or other locations where lower power equipment are hooked to.

This lets the higher power of a amp or inverter into the power lines of the lower power items, like your audio deck. Your audio deck picks this signal up and amplifies it to your speakers in a whine or huming sound.

The solution is to always hook your power straight to the battery!

Make sure your ground is good!

Use shielded RCA cables.

I only run my RCA's on the other side of the car for mids abd highs with high frequency's.

I never had a problem running RCA's on the same side as power with lower sub frequency's.

Also Pioneer has really lowered the quality on there lower line decks lately:crying: , and I would stay away from them if all possible.

Alpine, Kenwood, JVC, Clarion, Sony are still solid choice's.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/clap.gif.178cba2c538c68e720c727fcb024b19c.gif

Just my 2 cent's

Thanks

 

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