Does Second Skin & DIYMA deserve to get sued for libel?

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

Wow someone actually killed themself?

Yes. His name was Todd.

We was a second skin customer. I met him once. very nice guy.

My understanding was that he was depressed and had some other issues in his life. The loss of his dog was a big one, but I was also told that the transaction that went bad with patrick was what threw him over the edge.

I can not say this is a fact or not. Nobody knows for sure but Todd, but shit man.. He posted "God forgive me" on DIYMA, in that thread, then took his own life shortly after.

Terrible situation.

Whatever his reasoning, it tore a big hole in a lot of peoples lives.

ANT

PS

I love the quote in your sig!!

 

[MisterGrubbs 5,000+ posts]

That's always terribly sad to hear - no sense in that in my book.

Anyways Ant, dont sweat it. Sit back, relax, and log as much information as you can "just in case" but dont take a second look at it. If you have a lawyer you can call, you can just push it over until you receive that letter stating a court date - at which time your countersuit should and, if it were me, would be filed. Although the information being deleted and/or corrected is under your control, it is not your duty nor your legal obligation to fully research and correct the fictional statements.

Just keep on cruisin bro, best of luck in the matter.

And the other posters were correct - he cannot sue your company, he will be tossed out of court and make a fool of himself for attempting to attack you - he has to go after the individual spreading the lies, not you for allowing it to be posted. It's a public website where users are allowed to speak their mind as long as its within the guidelines you posted - he has those same rights(to post about what whenever he so pleases).

 

[Ellsworthz 10+ year member]

Yes. His name was Todd.We was a second skin customer. I met him once. very nice guy.

My understanding was that he was depressed and had some other issues in his life. The loss of his dog was a big one, but I was also told that the transaction that went bad with patrick was what threw him over the edge.

I can not say this is a fact or not. Nobody knows for sure but Todd, but shit man.. He posted "God forgive me" on DIYMA, in that thread, then took his own life shortly after.

Terrible situation.

Whatever his reasoning, it tore a big hole in a lot of peoples lives.

ANT

PS

I love the quote in your sig!!

i actually went through and read pages 1-12 everything, i think it took me 90minutes roughly, from what i can assume you are "DIYMA"?

wow, that "Fat Pat" is such a tool, who knows nothing, and even bashing on your company a little bit, that terrible what that guy with the mustang did, seemed like he was quiet troubled. tons of people piping in on such bad business. i will never buy anything from him.

R.I.P Todd (RICOSWAVYDOG)

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

i was hoping that mod i sent into a downward spiral on your site would kill himself. i dismantled that dude like no other. it was worth me getting banned shortly after. the dude was a little too edgy to be a mod especially for that site.

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

bobditts was his name...it just came to me. that episode was funny

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I've been instructed to put Rudeboy aka Don and DIYMA on notice for libel.

As Rudeboy aka Don (more accurately Don aka Rudeboy), I'm not terribly worried about Patrick aka DasBot aka "Overseer of the Robot Underground" (registered name of his corporation) pursuing legal action against us. I'd love to know where his instructions came from //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Here's the executive summary without all of the awful tragedy and unnecessary drama. A DIYMA member started a sales feedback thread to describe what he felt was unsatisfactory treatment by Patrick. Several others, including Todd added their unhappy experiences. A lot of it was pretty angry.

Patrick chimed in and was dismissive and abusive. Then again, it's not easy to defend yourself in that sort of environment. He is quoted by the OP as having claimed that he (Patrick) had mental problems and that a problem with his medication was the reason for some of the problems with their transaction. Who knows? Having read all of his posts in the thread, it sounds pretty feasible to me.

In any case, Patrick claimed that RU was not a business but was instead a church affiliated non-profit and as such, he couldn't be expected to resolve all of these problems because he was just in this to:

1. Pass on great deals
   
2. Serve as an educational resource
   

I asked him to substantiate his claims. In my experience, non-profits are happy to provide proof and churches shouldn't be ashamed of the their activities. After pages of evasion in which he linked us to the writings of a long dead self-help guru and made more assertions about his history and church affiliation, he finally posted the image of an Arizona certificate of incorporation. Following the trail that began with that document led to a series of documents that when put together, followed the pattern of a notorious tax evasion scheme EXACTLY. I pointed this out but never made an accusation.

He also claimed that his church thought so much of him that they gave him the use of a house to run the business out of. Digging into his county's records revealed that the house was owned by his wife. I also pointed this out, but not until Patrick insisted that I do so. I didn't see any reason to bring his wife into the discussion, but ended up having no choice.

That's where things stand now. I should also point out that ANT's contribution to the thread consisted of a few posts along the lines of: Whoa Patrick, you aren't doing yourself any favors here. Better cool down for your own good. Actually helpful advice that Patrick chose to ignore. To be libel, you need printed statements that are false. I don't know if an Internet forum rises to the level of "printed", but nothing I said is false. I've now experienced Patrick's condescending attitude and his expectation that people are stupid enough to bend over for whatever nonsense he feels like pronouncing. It's easy to see why people have gotten so angry over this sort of behavior.

 

[Pop da Hatch 10+ year member]

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SWEET - cant even troll. I was having a nice time reading this story though, pretty good one liners and quotes.

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

there are multiple aspects of defamation you may have forgot about don. one is malice, one can easily connect peoples actions towards patrick after the ******* of a well liked member. people went off the edge and began calling him out on his nonprofit status as well as "maliciously" flagging his posts on CL.

that added to the posting/questioning of his nonprofit status dives into a portion of defamation called "false light" which means the information posted may not be false, but is definitely misleading and causes harm to the sellers reputation. that is a component of defamation. there is an emotional aspect to this which is weighed on also. he may or may not have mental health issues, but if he does and has had more visits to the doc over the last few weeks due to this it also casts a shadow onto your ridicule of his business...whether you are telling a lie or not.

it is a tricky subject and i have become involved highly with defamation because of a suit i have against a neighbor who defamed my name when i began working for city council almost 2 years ago. my neighbor lost to my boss and the issues began from there. i am looking at 1.5 years of this issue and still no end in sight.

 

[Blue Fury 10+ year member]

Heartbreaking. Depressing. To think that if he wouldve gotten (from what I read) a deserved break, .... My prayers to him, his family and friends.

...

Edit- from what I read, again, your posts stayed within professional bounds. I believe there were a couple that may have bordered, but not nearly enough to be considered libel. Good luck.

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

the issue is that the information or "evidence" does not have to necessarily be false, but rather that it was somewhat misleading and caused malicious harm to the persons emotional well being and/or malicious harm to their business. the fact that so many people not only admitted to, but also promoted flagging his CL adds is a component to defamation.

the seed is planted that this guy may or may not be honest about his business as well as his products which casts a negative light on his sales. some courts would argue that his high positive feedback on sites like ebay are contrary to the "false light" cast on him on diyma.

Ant is involved primarily for allowing such acts to occur.

its a weird set of laws, but it protects both sides. i can see where people stepped over the line on this one and whether he does or does not have a "scheme" going on the fact remains he may have a lawyer to handle these issues. if the case does get picked up in court, however true or false they may be can get costly on both ends.

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

there are multiple aspects of defamation you may have forgot about don. one is malice, one can easily connect peoples actions towards patrick after the ******* of a well liked member. people went off the edge and began calling him out on his nonprofit status as well as "maliciously" flagging his posts on CL.
that added to the posting/questioning of his nonprofit status dives into a portion of defamation called "false light" which means the information posted may not be false, but is definitely misleading and causes harm to the sellers reputation. that is a component of defamation. there is an emotional aspect to this which is weighed on also. he may or may not have mental health issues, but if he does and has had more visits to the doc over the last few weeks due to this it also casts a shadow onto your ridicule of his business...whether you are telling a lie or not.

it is a tricky subject and i have become involved highly with defamation because of a suit i have against a neighbor who defamed my name when i began working for city council almost 2 years ago. my neighbor lost to my boss and the issues began from there. i am looking at 1.5 years of this issue and still no end in sight.

I'm pretty comfortable with my role in this. As far as I'm concerned, any subtleties disappeared when he dared us to find any holes in his story and handed us the keys. His comments about Todd, after his death and since redacted by ANT, were outrageous by any standard. I appreciate the warning, but any damage to his business and reputation was by his own hand. I suspect his threat was meant to give teeth to his demand to have the thread deleted - sort of the last desperate act of someone who has humiliated himself on a forum and doesn't want the specifics to come up in every relevant search done during the next 10 years.

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

maybe, but the courts take on so many cases that the time and effort you might have to put up with on your end may be problematic. a "false" lawsuit can cause you many issues as well and bring more stress than you deserve because someone got sand in their ******.

as for todd, i have no sympathy for *******. i have my reasons, but i have no remorse for someone so selfish.

 

[its_bacon12 10+ year member]

i was hoping that mod i sent into a downward spiral on your site would kill himself. i dismantled that dude like no other. it was worth me getting banned shortly after. the dude was a little too edgy to be a mod especially for that site.

Yes, I remember you. I was a large part of getting you banned from there and rightfully so with comments like these.

Anyways, I don't think this guy has a case whatsoever. He was part of a bad transaction so one should expect poor feedback in any case. I highly doubt any judge with their right mind would give this more than 2 minutes in his court room.

 

[quest51210 10+ year member]

for one, i still think it was funny that bobtitts went down like he did. i have no ill will towards you guys, most of you are followers anyways. no different from other forums.

on a side note, most cases never make it to court. what usually happens is that his revenge is to tie you up into his problems which cause stress, money, and time. by the time you can fight back with your own lawsuit, you have little left to fight back.

the major issue is that it went from a bad transaction, it was fixed, and then wound up being a penis war. granted it was a penis war from both sides, but nonetheless it grew to be much more than a thread about a bad transaction. as far as judges in their "right mind", do you know the caseload judges deal with? 2 minutes might be all they ever give any case, like i said most lawsuits for any matter rarely make it to court. its the backhanded harassment caused by a lawsuit which can be detrimental to your life.

if the guy actually has a "scheme" going on and has been fruitfull with it for what seems like a few years now wouldnt you fear the lengths at which people would go to protect their cash cow? that is if what was said is true.

 

[Anthony Collova 10+ year member]

i was hoping that mod i sent into a downward spiral on your site would kill himself. i dismantled that dude like no other. it was worth me getting banned shortly after. the dude was a little too edgy to be a mod especially for that site.

Huh?

What are you talking about?

ANT