Current events discussion

[ThxOne Premium Member]

You sure are long winded Rob.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Like I said, you don't want to listen. You refuse to actually read what is posted. Just look at your response here... look at the attitude in your response and the way you convey what you think we are saying. It's like you aren't listening just to be spiteful.

Clearly you haven't the cognitive ability to comprehend tariffs other than democrats told you to believe they are ALL bad and Trump is the Devil.

Simple breakdown - You, Rob, are selling an item in my store. I charge you $.10 each to sell these $1 items in my store. You sell MANY of these items. Your boss harasses our customers. We tell him to stop harassing our customers or we will charge YOU $.90 each item to sell in our store. You gonna tell your boss to stop harassing our customers?

I asked who would pay the tariffs. You claimed they were a "bluff".
I asked what the "bluff" was and who would pay the tariffs, and your answer was "What do Tariffs do Rob?" Spokey's answer was "Dense".
I asked again what the "bluff" was, and your answer was "Rob is literally looking at Tariffs from one point of view. His." Spokey answered with "If tariffs were biden or kamala's idea, he'd be pushing the greatness of imposing tariffs..." and "The higher price due to the tariff leads less demand for the product...which reduces sales which leads to lower profits..." followed by "You seem to think only the end of the supply chain will be affected...clearly you're either too dense to think it through or too bias to honestly consider the idea."

Neither of you answered what the "bluff" was, or who paid the tariff.


You both then said that the tariffs would cause foreign governments to reduce the number of people leaving THEIR land, to come to ours illegally, and cause those governments to stop the export of illegal drugs to the US.

I asked the reasoning beyond this presumed result of a tariff, and the responses varied from "Trump's stand to Mexico and Canada, tighten your shit up or you will pay more/make less to do business with America." to
"You seem to think the end of the supply chain will be affected...clearly you're either too dense to think it through or too bias to honestly consider the idea."
to "So increased prices from reckless spending causing inflation is just fine provided the correct party is doing it but potential increases to curb serious problems is just unacceptable...I understand exactly where you're coming from..."
to " The U.S. wants Mexican and Canadian governments to get their borders in check. Are you following along Rob? To help (push) these countries into doing what they should already be doing with their borders Trump is THREATENING tariffs that will hurt these countries more than they hurt us."

Neither of you gave an actual answer as to how tariffs will reduce illegal immigration or drug trade .

So I focused on the demand for drugs, and got similar non-answers, as did Jimi:

I threw all kinds of real-world examples out there, using actual retail statistics from the biggest retailer and employer in the world, the tariff percentages being suggested, and the fact that retail giants are saying they will pass the tariff costs on to the consumers. I asked how this affects foreign governments, and got answers like "The route through mexico being taken away will make much much harder to get here illegally. The tariff threat is all about leverage to put a stop to that" or "The retailer isn't getting more profit."(a false claim if COGS goes up)., or "Higher prices reduce sales...it's not a one way street."
and "Taxes go where? To whom? - Governments. Who pays these taxes? Businesses and consumers.
Tariffs affect businesses and consumers. - Tariffs cause higher prices - sales decline - lower profits - less taxes paid. Governments lose money when tariffs are made."
(Which is saying our government will lose money if tariffs are imposed).

And another non-answer about how tariffs will stop illegal immigration and drug trafficking: "The US to foreign government - Secure your border or we will impose tariffs of __% on such and such products. The less you secure your border the higher the tariff %. The foreign government looks at the numbers and realizes how much they will lose and they secure their own borders."
And yet another: "No you're just arguing a singular point as usual...the second you concede that tariffs affect more then consumer you're questioning won't be necessary"

So no, NO ONE has actually answered the question of WHO pays the tariff.
No one has actually answered the question of how tariffs will make another government prevent people from leaving their country.
No one has answered the question as to how a tariff will stem illegal drug trade.


And like your previous example where you thought $45 profit was better than a $50 profit, your really strange example of charging me a fee to sell items in your store (instead of you selling them yourself) is not analogous at all.

Let's use a real example: Computers.
In 2022, Mexico's largest export to the US was computers. $36.8 BILLION worth.

Let's play with WalMart #s (because they are easy).
Walmart pays Foxconn $100 for a PC, and sells it for $200 to meet their 50% GPM. $100 profit.

Trump lays on a 20% tariff.
WalMart is now paying Foxconn $100 for a PC, and $20 to the US government in a tariff fee.
Walmart ups the price of the PC to $240, since they keystone their costs, and will not deviate from that because it is how they stay in business.

Foxconn is still getting their $100. WalMart has passed the tariff expense to the consumer.
How does this force Mexico to prohibit people from leaving their country? How does it inhibit drug trade?

Let's go crazy and say that WalMart simply passes the $20 tariff to the customer, instead of maintaining their 50% margin.
Foxconn still got their $100.
What is the punishment to Mexico?

Before you say "reduced exports to the US": It hasn't worked in the past. Why do you think it will work now?

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

I asked who would pay the tariffs. You claimed they were a "bluff".
I asked what the "bluff" was and who would pay the tariffs, and your answer was "What do Tariffs do Rob?" Spokey's answer was "Dense".
I asked again what the "bluff" was, and your answer was "Rob is literally looking at Tariffs from one point of view. His." Spokey answered with "If tariffs were biden or kamala's idea, he'd be pushing the greatness of imposing tariffs..." and "The higher price due to the tariff leads less demand for the product...which reduces sales which leads to lower profits..." followed by "You seem to think only the end of the supply chain will be affected...clearly you're either too dense to think it through or too bias to honestly consider the idea."

Neither of you answered what the "bluff" was, or who paid the tariff.


You both then said that the tariffs would cause foreign governments to reduce the number of people leaving THEIR land, to come to ours illegally, and cause those governments to stop the export of illegal drugs to the US.

I asked the reasoning beyond this presumed result of a tariff, and the responses varied from "Trump's stand to Mexico and Canada, tighten your shit up or you will pay more/make less to do business with America." to
"You seem to think the end of the supply chain will be affected...clearly you're either too dense to think it through or too bias to honestly consider the idea."
to "So increased prices from reckless spending causing inflation is just fine provided the correct party is doing it but potential increases to curb serious problems is just unacceptable...I understand exactly where you're coming from..."
to " The U.S. wants Mexican and Canadian governments to get their borders in check. Are you following along Rob? To help (push) these countries into doing what they should already be doing with their borders Trump is THREATENING tariffs that will hurt these countries more than they hurt us."

Neither of you gave an actual answer as to how tariffs will reduce illegal immigration or drug trade .

So I focused on the demand for drugs, and got similar non-answers, as did Jimi:
View attachment 61590
View attachment 61591


I threw all kinds of real-world examples out there, using actual retail statistics from the biggest retailer and employer in the world, the tariff percentages being suggested, and the fact that retail giants are saying they will pass the tariff costs on to the consumers. I asked how this affects foreign governments, and got answers like "The route through mexico being taken away will make much much harder to get here illegally. The tariff threat is all about leverage to put a stop to that" or "The retailer isn't getting more profit."(a false claim if COGS goes up)., or "Higher prices reduce sales...it's not a one way street."
and "Taxes go where? To whom? - Governments. Who pays these taxes? Businesses and consumers.
Tariffs affect businesses and consumers. - Tariffs cause higher prices - sales decline - lower profits - less taxes paid. Governments lose money when tariffs are made."
(Which is saying our government will lose money if tariffs are imposed).

And another non-answer about how tariffs will stop illegal immigration and drug trafficking: "The US to foreign government - Secure your border or we will impose tariffs of __% on such and such products. The less you secure your border the higher the tariff %. The foreign government looks at the numbers and realizes how much they will lose and they secure their own borders."
And yet another: "No you're just arguing a singular point as usual...the second you concede that tariffs affect more then consumer you're questioning won't be necessary"

So no, NO ONE has actually answered the question of WHO pays the tariff.
No one has actually answered the question of how tariffs will make another government prevent people from leaving their country.
No one has answered the question as to how a tariff will stem illegal drug trade.


And like your previous example where you thought $45 profit was better than a $50 profit, your really strange example of charging me a fee to sell items in your store (instead of you selling them yourself) is not analogous at all.

Let's use a real example: Computers.
In 2022, Mexico's largest export to the US was computers. $36.8 BILLION worth.

Let's play with WalMart #s (because they are easy).
Walmart pays Foxconn $100 for a PC, and sells it for $200 to meet their 50% GPM. $100 profit.

Trump lays on a 20% tariff.
WalMart is now paying Foxconn $100 for a PC, and $20 to the US government in a tariff fee.
Walmart ups the price of the PC to $240, since they keystone their costs, and will not deviate from that because it is how they stay in business.

Foxconn is still getting their $100. WalMart has passed the tariff expense to the consumer.
How does this force Mexico to prohibit people from leaving their country? How does it inhibit drug trade?

Let's go crazy and say that WalMart simply passes the $20 tariff to the customer, instead of maintaining their 50% margin.
Foxconn still got their $100.
What is the punishment to Mexico?

Before you say "reduced exports to the US": It hasn't worked in the past. Why do you think it will work now?

You really are like a child.

Other countries do things that affect the US that we don't like. We threaten those countries with tariffs to get them to stop doing bad things to our country. If you can't understand that then please, go away.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

You sure are long winded Rob.

Nah, just attempting to discuss things like an adult.
If the concepts are too difficult or unfamiliar to anyone, there is no reason they have to join in.

I'm not a sports guy, other than enjoying actually playing them, so I stay out of those convos. Though I could probably discuss their finances just fine.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

You really are like a child.

Other countries do things that affect the US that we don't like. We threaten those countries with tariffs to get them to stop doing bad things to our country. If you can't understand that then please, go away.

We "threaten them" with the idea of US citizens paying more for goods?
Wow. THAT will teach them...

BELIEVE it all you want (because Trump said it), but the tariff does NOT get paid by the foreign exporter, and it DOESN'T reduce our imports enough (if at all) to make them want to bend to our will.

It has failed in the recent and distant past, and there has been no reason for us to think it will magically work this time around, especially when it's being used for a result that it would never affect.
Start in 1930 with Smoot-Hawley (which made the depression worse), and work your way forward. Failure.

So, I'll ask these very basic questions of you again. If you are unable to answer them, maybe this conversation is just simply over your head:

Who pays the tariff on an imported good? For example: A computer from Mexico.
Why would a tariff reduce illegal border crossings into the US?
Of China, Canada, Mexico, which country has border control to prevent people from LEAVING?
Why would a tariff reduce our demand for illegal drugs, and keep other countries from supplying them?

It's been claimed that we will buy less, which will hurt the foreign exporters. History has shown that this doesn't happen, so we can't use "leverage" as the reason those foreign governments will "clamp down".

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

We "threaten them" with the idea of US citizens paying more for goods?
Wow. THAT will teach them...

BELIEVE it all you want (because Trump said it), but the tariff does NOT get paid by the foreign exporter, and it DOESN'T reduce our imports enough (if at all) to make them want to bend to our will.

It has failed in the recent and distant past, and there has been no reason for us to think it will magically work this time around, especially when it's being used for a result that it would never affect.
Start in 1930 with Smoot-Hawley (which made the depression worse), and work your way forward. Failure.

So, I'll ask these very basic questions of you again. If you are unable to answer them, maybe this conversation is just simply over your head:

Who pays the tariff on an imported good? For example: A computer from Mexico.
Why would a tariff reduce illegal border crossings into the US?
Of China, Canada, Mexico, which country has border control to prevent people from LEAVING?
Why would a tariff reduce our demand for illegal drugs, and keep other countries from supplying them?

It's been claimed that we will buy less, which will hurt the foreign exporters. History has shown that this doesn't happen, so we can't use "leverage" as the reason those foreign governments will "clamp down".

Jesus Christ. Goodnight.

 

[Jimi77 Premium Member]

Rob, you're letting TDS or an incessant need to argue get to you. Tariffs are not a new concept and are currently being used effectively. The current trade deal we have with China is ridiculous. We've built up their economy and military, but they restrict access to their markets. Trump is just fixing what is an obviously terrible deal. Let's look at what we got out of free trade with China: Cheap consumer goods that break one day after the warranty. And what did China get: we paid to build their cities, manufacturing and military. Why TF should we continue paying for China to be our enemy?

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Rob, you're letting TDS or an incessant need to argue get to you. Tariffs are not a new concept and are currently being used effectively. The current trade deal we have with China is ridiculous. We've built up their economy and military, but they restrict access to their markets. Trump is just fixing what is an obviously terrible deal. Let's look at what we got out of free trade with China: Cheap consumer goods that break one day after the warranty. And what did China get: we paid to build their cities, manufacturing and military. Why TF should we continue paying for China to be our enemy?

Rob only sees the consumer end of a tariff...he won't accept higher prices mean lower demand (fewer products exported) which is where the leverage of a tariff comes in.

 

[Buck 5,000+ posts]

When I search for how I'm enslaved it's just a bunch of stuff about "wage slaves."

Well, yes, the bankers would be considered the top of the pyramid in many peoples eyes. If you consider something like bloodlines of the Illuminati and the anunnaki, there's thoughts that bankers and royal families and what not have more of the "gods'" dna from the manipulation of humanity at the Genesis moment, thousands and thousands of years ago, and believe they have a theocratic right to rule over the world because of that, superior genetics, eugenics, that's where it comes from, money and taxes. They believe their genetics makes them more children of the gods than you dumb dipshit tax paying slaves who will all be eradicated for the birth of ai. The whole concept of money and modern civilization was fed to us from the gods, if you go read about what people were talking about like 7000 years ago. According to the ancient humans, we mine gold because the anunnaki designed us to for them, then we got gold currency as our main human currency since then.

 

[RobGMN Premium Member]

Rob, you're letting TDS or an incessant need to argue get to you. Tariffs are not a new concept and are currently being used effectively. The current trade deal we have with China is ridiculous. We've built up their economy and military, but they restrict access to their markets. Trump is just fixing what is an obviously terrible deal. Let's look at what we got out of free trade with China: Cheap consumer goods that break one day after the warranty. And what did China get: we paid to build their cities, manufacturing and military. Why TF should we continue paying for China to be our enemy?

WalMart bases like 80% of their sales in the US on goods from China.
That's $400 BILLION per year of goods that "break in a day", so I guess they do a billion a day in replacing what they sold us yesterday.
Pretty amazing business model. Wish I had thought of it.

We're "paying China to be our enemy" because they provide the goods cheaper than we can make here them while maintaining the profit level that is required by manufacturers, investors, etc.
We pay pretty much all of our enemies to provide us goods we need, and our enemies pay us to provide them the goods THEY need.
I'm not saying that makes sense, but it's a reality of world trade that's existed for longer than we've been alive.

Tariff failures are not a "Trump" syndrome. They got replace by our current system of taxation, and were also pushed out to promote freer international trade. They failed before him, and they failed with him.
He just uses them as a battle cry for his followers to get behind him, and won't even tell the truth about who pays for them.
****, no one here will even admit that they go direct to the consumer, and the "big boys" of retail commerce have flat-out said so.

And I'd bet good money that no one will admit how much the retaliatory tariffs other countries place on our goods ended up costing us. For example, the $31 BILLION we paid to farmers in subsidies when their product didn't go overseas.

You see, WE can absorb the cost of a tariff a helluva lot easier than other countries whose citizens are either poor, or already paying high taxes. Jack up our prices, and we continue buying from Canada. They don't get hurt.
Jack up pricing of US goods in Canada where they already pay significantly more taxes? They'll make US pay.

The mathematical FACT is that the last time Trump attempted to punish other countries by making us pay more for goods, it failed. It ended up being equivalent to one of the biggest tax increases we've had in DECADES. The money was just taken under a different name.

So Trump "lowers taxes" and everyone cheers. He then increases the cost of goods with tariffs that WE pay for which more than offsets the tax "reduction", effectively giving us the largest tax increase in decades, and we cheer.

Rob only sees the consumer end of a tariff...he won't accept higher prices mean lower demand (fewer products exported) which is where the leverage of a tariff comes in.

You can post that same phrase 100x, Spokey.
Instead, show me evidence of how tariffs in the past 50 years have worked for the US. Since Trump wants to give it another go, maybe focus on the tariffs he attempted the last time around.

Explain their success using actual dollar figures and evidence of how other countries "changed their ways" when Trump threatened, and then enacted the tariffs.

No memes, no hyperbole, not "you just don't understand the wizard behind the curtain". Just show me the hard economic facts and figures, and proof that they all bent to our will, and did what we demanded.

A reasonable ask in a discussion of what our future might be like.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

Tariff failures are not a "Trump" syndrome. They got replace by our current system of taxation, and were also pushed out to promote freer international trade.

Then why were we using tariffs prior to Trump and since Trump? If they're a failure why does pretty much every country utilize tariffs. You're arguing theory against what's happening right now in the real world...

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

It is obvious no matter what proof or facts he is given his position will not change. He is all about how everything Trump is doing or suggesting is bad no matter what because "Orange Man Bad". His side lost the election by a land slide and this is all he has now. Demands of proof he will never accept.

I mean like this Biden fact:
"The Biden administration has kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, and in May 2024, announced tariff hikes on an additional $18 billion of Chinese goods, including semiconductors and electric vehicles, for an additional tax increase of $3.6 billion". - Taxfoundation.org.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

It is obvious no matter what proof or facts he is given his position will not change. He is all about how everything Trump is doing or suggesting is bad no matter what because "Orange Man Bad". His side lost the election by a land slide and this is all he has now. Demands of proof he will never accept.

I mean like this Biden fact:
"The Biden administration has kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, and in May 2024, announced tariff hikes on an additional $18 billion of Chinese goods, including semiconductors and electric vehicles, for an additional tax increase of $3.6 billion". - Taxfoundation.org.

That can't be true...Rob couldn't possibly be wrong about tariffs working

 

[ThxOne Premium Member]

That can't be true...Rob couldn't possibly be wrong about tariffs working

I dunno... it does say the Biden administration kept most of Trumps tariffs. Did you know, the Biden administration also has their own tariffs they imposed? It's true. I am just glad that Rob is now going to admit that he thinks his side is also wrong for using tariffs since then don't work.

 

[spokey9 5,000+ posts]

I am just glad that Rob is now going to admit that he thinks his side is also wrong for using tariffs since then don't work.

Don't hold your breathe buddy

Biden tariffs are effective and necessary...anything the orange fella does is evil and proof he's trying to be a dictator