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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RobGMN" data-source="post: 8884300" data-attributes="member: 683408">I asked who would pay the tariffs. You claimed they were a "bluff".I asked what the "bluff" was and who would pay the tariffs, and your answer was "What do Tariffs do Rob?" Spokey's answer was "Dense".I asked again what the "bluff" was, and your answer was "Rob is literally looking at Tariffs from one point of view. His." Spokey answered with "If tariffs were biden or kamala's idea, he'd be pushing the greatness of imposing tariffs..." and "The higher price due to the tariff leads less demand for the product...which reduces sales which leads to lower profits..." followed by "You seem to think only the end of the supply chain will be affected...clearly you're either too dense to think it through or too bias to honestly consider the idea."Neither of you answered what the "bluff" was, or who paid the tariff.You both then said that the tariffs would cause foreign governments to reduce the number of people leaving THEIR land, to come to ours illegally, and cause those governments to stop the export of illegal drugs to the US.I asked the reasoning beyond this presumed result of a tariff, and the responses varied from "Trump's stand to Mexico and Canada, tighten your shit up or you will pay more/make less to do business with America." to "You seem to think the end of the supply chain will be affected...clearly you're either too dense to think it through or too bias to honestly consider the idea." to "So increased prices from reckless spending causing inflation is just fine provided the correct party is doing it but potential increases to curb serious problems is just unacceptable...I understand exactly where you're coming from..."to " The U.S. wants Mexican and Canadian governments to get their borders in check. Are you following along Rob? To help (push) these countries into doing what they should already be doing with their borders Trump is THREATENING tariffs that will hurt these countries more than they hurt us."Neither of you gave an actual answer as to how tariffs will reduce illegal immigration or drug trade .So I focused on the demand for drugs, and got similar non-answers, as did Jimi:[ATTACH=full]61590[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]61591[/ATTACH]I threw all kinds of real-world examples out there, using actual retail statistics from the biggest retailer and employer in  the world, the tariff percentages being suggested, and the fact that retail giants are saying they will pass the tariff costs on to the consumers. I asked how this affects foreign governments, and got answers like "The route through mexico being taken away will make much much harder to get here illegally. The tariff threat is all about leverage to put a stop to that" or "The retailer isn't getting more profit."(a false claim if COGS goes up)., or "Higher prices reduce sales...it's not a one way street."and "Taxes go where? To whom? - Governments. Who pays these taxes? Businesses and consumers.Tariffs affect businesses and consumers. - Tariffs cause higher prices - sales decline - lower profits - less taxes paid. Governments lose money when tariffs are made."(Which is saying our government will lose money if tariffs are imposed).And another non-answer about how tariffs will stop illegal immigration and drug trafficking: "The US to foreign government - Secure your border or we will impose tariffs of __% on such and such products. The less you secure your border the higher the tariff %. The foreign government looks at the numbers and realizes how much they will lose and they secure their own borders."And yet another: "No you're just arguing a singular point as usual...the second you concede that tariffs affect more then consumer you're questioning won't be necessary"So no, NO ONE has actually answered the question of WHO pays the tariff.No one has actually answered the question of how tariffs will make another government prevent people from leaving their country.No one has answered the question as to how a tariff will stem illegal drug trade.And like your previous example where you thought $45 profit was better than a $50 profit, your really strange example of charging me a fee to sell items in your store (instead of you selling them yourself) is not analogous at all.Let's use a real example: Computers. In 2022, Mexico's largest export to the US was computers. $36.8 BILLION worth.Let's play with WalMart #s (because they are easy).Walmart pays Foxconn $100 for a PC, and sells it for $200 to meet their 50% GPM. $100 profit.Trump lays on a 20% tariff.WalMart is now paying Foxconn $100 for a PC, and $20 to the US government in a tariff fee.Walmart ups the price of the PC to $240, since they keystone their costs, and will not deviate from that because it is how they stay in business.Foxconn is still getting their $100. WalMart has passed the tariff expense to the consumer.How does this force Mexico to prohibit people from leaving their country? How does it inhibit drug trade?Let's go crazy and say that WalMart simply passes the $20 tariff to the customer, instead of maintaining their 50% margin.Foxconn still got their $100.What is the punishment to Mexico?Before you say "reduced exports to the US": It hasn't worked in the past. Why do you think it will work now?</blockquote>

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