Couple ?'s on sub choice...I've done some research

[Sguirrelfeather]

So, like the title says, I've done some research, but now I think I'm more confused than ever. lol Since I can't have a sig yet, here's my setup:

2004 Ford Excursion (a LOT of space to fill with bass)

JVC KW-R910BT head unit

JBL GTO-5ez amp running 1 sub and front/rear door speakers

500W to sub @2 Ohm, 75W to speakers (RMS)

JBL GTO-3ez amp running another sub and the rear passenger speakers

500W to sub @2 Ohm, 75W to speakers (RMS)

2 x 10" JBL GTO1014D subs in sealed enclosure (1 box, 2 separate compartments, 1cuft each) between front seats

350W RMS subs...I knew they were below my amp's rating, but i got a deal so why not. lol

6 x JBL GTO 509C component speakers - 5 1/4 mid, 3/4 tweet using included x-overs

75W RMS

So, I figured I would eventually have to replace the subs because of their lower power rating (this was before I knew how to set gains to compensate for that, though that is currently being a pita). I've repaired the surrounds twice, and they are starting to tear again. Tax time is coming up, so I figured I would start looking for something which could handle the 500W RMS and still give me good SQ while providing SPL as well. A lot of people recommend DD, a lot say sundowner, and so on. Here's where I begin to stumble. DD does not list sensitivity, so how do we know if they'll deliver the volume in a properly built box? The sundowner I looked at had sensitivity down around 81dB. To me, this shows that it has more rigidity, and can therefore handle more power than what I currently have, but then does that not also mean I will need more than 500W RMS to get the same volume as what I get now? And I can't even figure out what some of these other brands are that you guys talk about. lol

I tried to see if it was possible that the local "high end" audio place had a clue. I knew it was a long shot. Yeah....all they could do was tell me about what they had in stock, and kept pushing speakers which would NOT handle the load, even though he assured me their max rating of 1200W meant it would handle my 500 RMS. asshats

So is there any help to be had here? Will I need to go with higher RMS on a sub like the Sundowner? Are DD's loud enough with the SQ even though they don't list sensitivity? Are there other brands I should seriously consider? If so, why?

And to make sure I have fulfilled all the requirements of what you will ask for (based off the sticky), here's the rest of the info:

two subs preferred...sealed, because even though it's a huge truck, I want to keep them between the front seats.

10" would be best, but I think I could fit 12's in there if need be.

I'd like to not spend more than 500 for the pair, but may be able to stretch it out to 650 or so.

Space available is 14" wide, 12" high, 30" long

I mainly listen to metal, hard rock, some odd stuff like Lady Gaga, Turn Down for What, etc...stuff which has a lot of bass.

I don't have preferred brands, but I will say I don't want something I'm going to regret, which is why I'm asking for help. lol

Click to read more...

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

sealed wont give you much output and 500 RMS isnt alot of power. even low-line cheap woofers handle 300-500 RMS.

you have enough room for a pair of small sealed box 12s.

 

[Boomin_tahoe 5,000+ posts]

I know people that put 500 watts on tweeters/mids.....but to subs it isn't a lot.

 

[trillest11 10+ year member]

My suggestion with that space and if you have box building skills is to take the 500watts to a SA8 in a Tline. For the music you listed I think it would play extremely well. A Tline for an 8 inch woofer tuned to 35hz is about 2.5 ft^3 outside dimensions. Which is a little less than what you listed.

I run my e8 sundown on 600 watts. It's double it's rated power, but it works. I would tell you that you can get one of those since the new ones are recognized as being as good as the SA8 v1.5 And they only cost $100 or so vs teh SA8 being almost twice that.

And if you are willing to pay what you are saying for the subs, you can probably get a box built and buy the sub for that amount. Get a quote from Cstang

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

Perhaps a pair of SSA dcon

 

[Sguirrelfeather]

Ok, guys, I realize I'm not running anything extreme. I know 500W isn't a lot of power for a sub. I'm not building for competition. This is my daily driver and I like to listen to music...sometimes loud. I know lots of low end subs will handle 500W. So maybe I needed to be a little more clear with my questions.

I'm wanting to upgrade my subs to something that will have no problem handling the power I currently have with no worries of it tearing the surrounds again, or of blowing it in other ways. I've been looking at SS, Sound Qubed, Sundowner, FI, and a couple others. I know they're all quality compared to "major" name brands like Rockford, JL, etc, so that's not my concern. What I'm wondering....a couple things actually...is if I pump, for example, 500W into my current sub, which has 91dB sensitivity, and get 110dB, would I need to put in more wattage into one of these to get the same volume, considering most of these have low to mid 80"s on their sensitivity. See, I don't want to upgrade the sub only to find out I'm going to need a new amp because it's no longer as loud as my old setup.

As for my DD question...they don't list a sensitivity. Are they comparable to these other brands in sensitivity?

kr15, the dcon shows a 400W RMS rating. Did you mean another speaker, or are these known to be under-rated?

Trillest11, I know what a Tline is, but why are you recommending that? From what I understand, that design really works best for med size cabins. I've got an Excursion....I could fit an entire car inside my cabin. lol Are you saying the Tline would work well for a large cabin?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='Sguirrelfeather']Ok, guys, I realize I'm not running anything extreme. I know 500W isn't a lot of power for a sub. I'm not building for competition. This is my daily driver and I like to listen to music...sometimes loud. I know lots of low end subs will handle 500W. So maybe I needed to be a little more clear with my questions.

I'm wanting to upgrade my subs to something that will have no problem handling the power I currently have with no worries of it tearing the surrounds again, or of blowing it in other ways. I've been looking at SS, Sound Qubed, Sundowner, FI, and a couple others. I know they're all quality compared to "major" name brands like Rockford, JL, etc, so that's not my concern. What I'm wondering....a couple things actually...is if I pump, for example, 500W into my current sub, which has 91dB sensitivity, and get 110dB, would I need to put in more wattage into one of these to get the same volume, considering most of these have low to mid 80"s on their sensitivity. See, I don't want to upgrade the sub only to find out I'm going to need a new amp because it's no longer as loud as my old setup.

As for my DD question...they don't list a sensitivity. Are they comparable to these other brands in sensitivity?

kr15, the dcon shows a 400W RMS rating. Did you mean another speaker, or are these known to be under-rated?

Trillest11, I know what a Tline is, but why are you recommending that? From what I understand, that design really works best for med size cabins. I've got an Excursion....I could fit an entire car inside my cabin. lol Are you saying the Tline would work well for a large cabin?[/QUOTE]

subwoofer sensitivity specs are thrown out the window most of the times because they dont have a proper uniformed method of testing for it, you got a lot of bogus claims and you got subs that prove otherwise in real world applications. Sensitivity is reserved for when you are looking at speakers and tweeters, its not a spec you necessarily look for in a sub. You look at the TS specs and model the woofer out in a program called WinISD and see projected SPL based on enclosure design and power input.

T lines work well in any car. @CSCStang has an 8 in a t-line in his sequoia. T-lines, 4th orders, 6th orders are very efficent boxes vs sealed or ported.

For 500 watts, T line is the key

This is two soundqubed hds208s in a T line on less than 400 watts total

https://vid.me/DIQz

If you have an excursion, a single HDS 215 in a T line should work fine.

Or a dayton audio classic 18 ported. You need cone area if you have a big cabin to pressurize and not enough power to do so.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dcs450-4-18-classic-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-475

dont be fooled by the 300 rms rating, its a 3 inch coil, double to 1k rms on that easy.

 

[kr15 5,000+ posts]

Yes those are the proper dcons.

 

[trillest11 10+ year member]

Yes t lines would work well in a large cabin. I have seen tlines in living rooms and they do amazing. I mean amazing. That is why I felt ok suggesting it for you. And if you do decide to go that way, I would suggest the E8v4. It's sensitivity is high enough for you, and it's rated at 300wrms. But I put 6 to mine in a ported. I would think that 500w tline it would handle it all day. You will have to tune the amp correctly. The e8v4 is essentially the sa8v1.5 which people put stupid power on. But since in your budget you have enough for the SA8v3, maybe just go that way. Your choice.

I'll say this, reading a lot on these forums and talking with people locally, ive never seen someone dissapointed in a Tline build. But I've never seen one in a bus either.

 

[Sguirrelfeather]

Ok, so you guys have definitely prompted me to do even more in-depth research, and I have a couple more questions which I hope you can answer.

The first is simple on the surface. Can a Tline (should I decide to go that route), deliver the thumpy kick drum beat as well as deliver the lows? I can listen to those youtube videos all day, but with my computer I can't tell. lol I only have experience with sealed, basic ported, and a bandpass, and neither the ported or bandpass have ever had quite the thumpiness the sealed did. Granted, maybe they were poor designs. I don't know.

Second is about the "sounds" of various manufacturers. I wouldn't have even thought of this until I read a thread here from a few years back. In it they were talking about how SA subs just had a different sound than an FI....not muddier, but more like it just responded better on the lows, favoring them over the 45-60Hz punch area. Is that just this one brand, or are there distinct sounds to these various brands?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='Sguirrelfeather']Ok, so you guys have definitely prompted me to do even more in-depth research, and I have a couple more questions which I hope you can answer.

The first is simple on the surface. Can a Tline (should I decide to go that route), deliver the thumpy kick drum beat as well as deliver the lows? I can listen to those youtube videos all day, but with my computer I can't tell. lol I only have experience with sealed, basic ported, and a bandpass, and neither the ported or bandpass have ever had quite the thumpiness the sealed did. Granted, maybe they were poor designs. I don't know.

Second is about the "sounds" of various manufacturers. I wouldn't have even thought of this until I read a thread here from a few years back. In it they were talking about how SA subs just had a different sound than an FI....not muddier, but more like it just responded better on the lows, favoring them over the 45-60Hz punch area. Is that just this one brand, or are there distinct sounds to these various brands?[/QUOTE]

LOL @CSCStang tell him about your 20hz to 80hz response.

OP you'll sh*t in your pants in his Truck with two 15s in a T line on both extreme shirt tricking lows and midbass double bass pedals slamming your chest. Slow N throw, Decaf, ultra low musik all the way to Metalcore, plays everything strong, The bass quality and bandwidth on his setup is miles beyond any sealed box setup can provide, not to mention the crazy output off of some budget off the shelf mid level woofers.

His T line is Definitely on a another level compared to those guys that say oh my system's bass response is flat, smooth and i get good range response out of my ported/4th order but in reality their sub's midbass response is sh*t whenever I demo them.


Its mainly the enclosure and the type of sub. The sundown X and Zv4 tend to play 50hz and under a lot better than over 50hz in a normal spec'd ported box, however in a wide bandwidth enclosure, they can play up top just fine, you just proper box building knowledge to get the response you want.

 

[Sguirrelfeather]

Boy, do I miss the old days before the internet...just go down to the local shop and blindly trust the guy behind the counter because he was your only source of information. lol

Thank you to everyone who has helped me out in here. I think I have enough knowledge now to start making some decisions. And I am definitely going to contact CSCStang about the box.

 

[CSCStang]

Boy, do I miss the old days before the internet...just go down to the local shop and blindly trust the guy behind the counter because he was your only source of information. lol
Thank you to everyone who has helped me out in here. I think I have enough knowledge now to start making some decisions. And I am definitely going to contact CSCStang about the box.

Holler anytime. Yeah I'm extremely satisfied with the 1544 tline in output and bandwidth.