Broken Tweeter

[Colin P 10+ year member]

oh and I got them from indoaudio (ebay) so thats the warranty out of the window

 

[OlogyAudio 10+ year member]

Please enlighten me know a companies 'set' built from scratch and $$R&D is 'comparable' to what you are doing.....other than sound any DIY'er can achieve in a good install. With high end, aside of sound, you are also paying for a work of art, highest quality craftsmanship and materials- in Rainbows case handbuilt. Will you be offering 5yr and lifetime warranties with your sets as well?
will you xovers look like this?

http://car.rainbow-audio.de/products/technology.php?lan=2&pro=1&lin=2&kom=3

Where are these credible independent tests with Rainbow Platinums and Boston Z6's pinned against your DIY project?

Spamming was never tolerated on this site, dunno what gives as of late- you must be an exception....... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

There are dealers who frequent this and other forums yet dont behave this way,I'm sure they'd appreciate if you saved your 'advertising' and claims though the use of PM's, not public......

thats funny stuff....

Mine are hand built as well lol...

Dayton drivers have a 5 yr warranty

My xovers do as well

I've listed independent distortion (linear nonlinear and toneburst) measurements for the RS180 and base driver for the rainbow platinum before seen here:

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/Woofer5/L18vRS180.htm

If someone wanted a very nice looking case and xover like that I could also do that it would just cost them more money and they choose to save money and hide their installs in the doors...

As for 'spam' I save most of that for PM -- I contacted the mods prior explaining what I am doing and have their support... I don't sell publicly through the forums nor do I directly list prices (PM/email only)

How else am I expected to let people know that I exist at this stage? I am aloud to mention that my product is indeed an option, just like any of the other small business... How do you think RE and Ascendant Audio started off? Word of mouth after a point but I haven't made a big enough client base for word of mouth to be sufficient at this point, that is why I actively use the forums -- chiming in whenever I can be of service and help...

Squeak will be getting a sample sent to him here in the coming weeks of the dealer variety which will allow him to hear all of the standard options that are available for the SL/PL units...

If you have any more comments or questions I will gladly answer them.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

Mine are hand built as well lol...Dayton drivers have a 5 yr warranty

My xovers do as well

I've listed independent distortion (linear nonlinear and toneburst) measurements for the RS180 and base driver for the rainbow platinum before seen here:

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/Testing/Woofer5/L18vRS180.htm

If someone wanted a very nice looking case and xover like that I could also do that it would just cost them more money and they choose to save money and hide their installs in the doors...

As for 'spam' I save most of that for PM -- I contacted the mods prior explaining what I am doing and have their support... I don't sell publicly through the forums nor do I directly list prices (PM/email only)

How else am I expected to let people know that I exist at this stage? I am aloud to mention that my product is indeed an option, just like any of the other small business... How do you think RE and Ascendant Audio started off? Word of mouth after a point but I haven't made a big enough client base for word of mouth to be sufficient at this point, that is why I actively use the forums -- chiming in whenever I can be of service and help...

Squeak will be getting a sample sent to him here in the coming weeks of the dealer variety which will allow him to hear all of the standard options that are available for the SL/PL units...

If you have any more comments or questions I will gladly answer them.

So you are 'claiming' the Seas L18 is the base driver for the Rainbow Platinum?

 

[OlogyAudio 10+ year member]

So you are 'claiming' the Seas L18 is the base driver for the Rainbow Platinum?

It is actually a slight modification of the newer Seas L series (Lx or something???) but its **** near the exact same line -- uses a neo motor structure with their aluminum cones....

Rainbow Reference uses Seas Excel drivers as the base...

I would hope you know what these larger companies are doing... Making slight cosmetic chances (phase plug color and basket cosmetics in this case), as well as making things a little smaller for an easier fit (shallower neo motor), using a 4 ohm coil... VERY slight changes to the base driver to give them a more unique look and increase suitability for use in a car...

This has been discussed before see:

In all honesty; that's nothing too different than what most car audio companies are already doing, even the big name brands. Alpine, CDT, etc etc all take "off the shelf" drivers (Vifa, Peerless, etc), make a tweak or two here and there in the design to make them better suited for car audio, design their own crossover (or have someone design the crossover), maybe make a few cosmetic changes, slap their label on them and sell them to you for 500x the cost of the raw drivers.

Ology's operation is a little rough around the edges yet because he is just getting started......but overall, it isn't too much different than what even the "main" manufacturer's are doing.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

It is actually a slight modification of the newer Seas L series (Lx or something???) but its **** near the exact same line -- uses a neo motor structure with their aluminum cones....Rainbow Reference uses Seas Excel drivers as the base...

I would hope you know what these larger companies are doing... Making slight cosmetic chances (phase plug color and basket cosmetics in this case), as well as making things a little smaller for an easier fit (shallower neo motor), using a 4 ohm coil... VERY slight changes to the base driver to give them a more unique look and increase suitability for use in a car...

This has been discussed before see:

I'm sorry, but 'slight' is not the word to use to describe the differences I see....

So how does that make them the same driver to compare performance wise to

the Seas L18 and the Daytons-to solidify your claim that they are comparable? If thats the case ANY phase plug driver is comparable. My PSB midranges at home must be Seas drivers then...

I'm not questioning the Dayton's performance, rather you 'car salesman' like approach, I'm not impressed. Not giving me anything solid, to work with-just a big assumption delivered as fact...

Please elaborate on how these are related, they dont share nor resemble each others thiele small parameters, nor appear so cosmetically- diff basket, diff size cone according to the effective cone area specs, differences in

magnet/motors system is apparent-making them diif speakers-all they share in common is that they are phase plug drivers

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=7794945.25196&pid=1037

http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seas/H1224.pdf

vs.

Woofer 175 Platinum

http://car.rainbow-audio.de/products/technology.php?lan=2&pro=1&lin=2

http://car.rainbow-audio.de/files/dynamic/downloads/rainbow_tsp_woofers_en.pdf

BTW the Reference and Platinum lines have been around a good 3-4yrs that I know of, perhaps even longer prior to entering the American market, so how are they based on a new Seas driver?

 

[OlogyAudio 10+ year member]

I'm sorry, but 'slight' is not the word to use to describe the differences I see....So how does that make them the same driver to compare performance wise to

the Seas L18 and the Daytons-to solidify your claim that they are comparable? If thats the case ANY phase plug driver is comparable. My PSB midranges at home must be Seas drivers then...

I'm not questioning the Dayton's performance, rather you 'car salesman' like approach, I'm not impressed. Not giving me anything solid, to work with-just a big assumption delivered as fact...

Please elaborate on how these are related, they dont share nor resemble each others thiele small parameters, nor appear so cosmetically- diff basket, diff size cone according to the effective cone area specs, differences in

magnet/motors system is apparent-making them diif speakers-all they share in common is that they are phase plug drivers

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=7794945.25196&pid=1037

http://www.madisound.com/pdf/seas/H1224.pdf

vs.

Woofer 175 Platinum

http://car.rainbow-audio.de/products/technology.php?lan=2&pro=1&lin=2

http://car.rainbow-audio.de/files/dynamic/downloads/rainbow_tsp_woofers_en.pdf

lol no not any phaseplug driver is the same driver... I don’t even know where on earth you got that idea… sounds like you are just desperate to try and call my products crap or something involving flame???

the Plat/L series happen to share the same cone profile, and be made by Seas... IT is essentially a neo motor strapped onto the same build type of cone used in the L series – with the old style smaller and inferior phase plug that is simply its natural color instead of anodized black…

In short they designed their neo motor (just as good just smaller) -- plopped the L series cone on it -- gave it a 4 ohm coil – changing the driver diameter isn't a big deal ethr... Seas can make drivers to your needs if you are going to order 10000 of them…

I'm not entirely sure which came first rainbow asking for a neo motor -- or the design with the neo motor... I'm saying that they are 'new' because madisound is just now starting to carry them. – these motors aren’t anything super special – but the cone profile is…

Just save yourself the trouble now and ask them if the manufacturer their drivers in house if you doubt my research was complete enough... People make mistakes but I’m nearly 100% certain as to the origin of the parts that rainbow uses…

Or if you want send off a rainbow platinum driver to have it measured independently and prove my point for me that the RS driver is in the same league as the Rainbow Platinum midwoofer... That is all that matters…

Only a few companies mfr their own drivers in house... and rainbow isn't one of them...

Making your own drivers doesn’t mean that they are of any higher quality though than if you made a huge OEM order like rainbow does… It is NOT cheap to run a moderate to large scale manufacturing operation…

If you doubt the quality of my products -- just wait a little bit till there are some more reviews... or when I send some of my products to squeak if you question the quality of the reviewers...

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

I'm familiar with Dayton RS drivers, i've heard my share.

I do know that Seas is Europes largest and oldest oem speaker manufacturer and most of those speaker companies in Europe-whether be parts, production units could be derived from Seas. But its clear that there are differences in design .

Rainbow claims 'handcrafted in Germany', whether if with Seas parts or not is not an issue- dunno too many companies that make everypart from scratch anyhow. I just find it unusually unfair that you are claiming L18 and Plat mid to be the same exact performers, without testing the particular driver- specs indicate differences.

 

[OlogyAudio 10+ year member]

I'm familiar with Dayton RS drivers, i've heard my share.I do know that Seas is Europes largest and oldest oem speaker manufacturer and most of those speaker companies in Europe-whether be parts, production units could be derived from Seas. But its clear that there are differences in design .

Rainbow claims 'handcrafted in Germany', whether if with Seas parts or not is not an issue- dunno too many companies that make everypart from scratch anyhow. I just find it unusually unfair that you are claiming L18 and Plat mid to be the same exact performers, without testing the particular driver- specs indicate differences.

Even if they are different -- there isn't much that is defiantly better and for that you have to spend an arm and a leg and go with accuton... The rainbow platinum sets obviously don't use fun exotic technologies //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Regardless they are in the same class in terms of quality as the RS and thats what I care the most about...

The Dayton RS drivers are better than the seas Excel drivers in some aspects and some units...

The Seas L series are better than the excel in some aspects as well...

And the Excel are again better than ethr of those in other aspects...

It is all a matter of tradeoffs...

In all honesty they could have taken an excel style motor structure -- or put dual copper shorting rings instead of a single... and ended up with a hybrid L/excel unit... again it is just picking different tradeoffs... less Xmax for more midrange clarity... or more money for some of both (they didn't take this route I mean look at the efficiency and the fs... you can tell from this) -- It looks to me like they ate some of the brute extension and traded it off for some extra quality in the midrange...

With the Ref. 3 ways you get both though... and thats how they get away with charging an arm and a leg...

I'm just supplying a product that is of comparable quality -- just price it much lower so there is absolutely no question which is the better deal...

 

[noob with an RS 10+ year member]

ology, you owned him! you da man!

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

ology, you owned him! you da man!

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif owned? we are having a discussion...dont be such a tool...

 

[OlogyAudio 10+ year member]

ology, you owned him! you da man!

He did have a valid point though that the L18 isn’t the exact driver that the rainbow platinum set uses though -- and they made adjustments to is to it is somewhere between the quality of the L series and Excel more than likely but to prove anything definitively I would have to get the real Plat driver measured, which is something I'm not going to be doing for some time... I mean think about how many sets I would have to sell in order to be able to buy the Rainbow Platinum set... it just isn't practical lol...

I think it is obvious that I'm legit, not trying to screw people over, and that my claims are subjective -- but at least there is some sort of technical data that puts my claims into the proper light and makes it apparent that they are indeed reasonable claims...

The biggest tradeoff I made in my design with the RS drivers is the 1.8khz xover point… with an xover this low, even though it is 4th order there is still a substantial amount of power that is going to the tweeter… at *very* high volumes with program material such as metal – or some intense rock like Static X the tweeter can start to get a bit harsh… If this is your listening preference I would have to recommend a 3 way or a soft dome tweeter… if you don’t want to sacrifice detail you will end up having to get a high end seas Excel tweeter which eats a few bucks…

Alternatively I am working on a 2 way with the Seas TBFC/TDFC (almost interchangeable, very few changes needed) with a seas midrange… playing with both the MP and MCA midranges…

Granted these drivers want a 2nd order high pass at about 150hz or so -- 4th order is fine at 120hz or so with the MCA, 100hz or so with the MP units... These are the likely candidates for the XXX 3 way... They would also be suitable for a 3 way with the Dayton 8” RS woofer… for the more value oriented… This would eliminate the slight harshness at very high SPL, maintain the awesome midrange accuracy… not to mention you would get an even more authoritative midbass.

 

[ChuteBoxe515 10+ year member]

ology, you owned him! you da man!

you **** //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/spank.gif.0d78e34d42ea8780359e903aeb6697d6.gif

 

[noob with an RS 10+ year member]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif owned? we are having a discussion...dont be such a tool...

you got SO owned!!!

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

you got SO owned!!!

Because I challenged someone elses claim that 'I' though was unreasonable? This is a discussion forum afterall, you may want to grow a sack someday and try it......sure beats having your nose dipped in shyt all the time

Ology...

I never questioned the performance of the Daytons, they are great drivers from a longtime solid company. You showed me a link of a tested Seas driver that is simply not a Rainbow Platinum mid. That is all, so i questioned you....You afterall are gunning after some highly regarded sets in the Bostons/Rainbows, this type of reaction should have been expected

Since no one else is playing, I will play Devil's advocate...

I dont see how this 'product' will benefit a local dealer. For one there cannot be much of a markup considering the market cost of these drivers. Dealers flourish on selling 'exclusivity', the market is saturated with penny pinchers that avoid local shops to begin with- instead of paying a big tag on your passive xover, will get the drivers themselves online and do their own thing actively, specially knowing what set consists of. Going active requires a decent HU and a 4ch amp these days, people looking into this caliber of drivers likely already have that covered.

You in other threads have even spoken on how much equalization/tuning an individual speaker in car needs-how is this passive xover anything less than a handicap in those regards with these raw drivers? Considering every car/application could benefit from a different xover/slope configuration...

Supposedly Dayton was going to eventually release more car friendly reference drivers w/out the mag shielding and vc changes when they finished the line . This would take even more sales away from your local dealers.

Tell me you'll be offering something that will be in high demand, make your product lucrative......

Tell me you'll have 2ohm version sets......people want to maximize use of their stereo amps

Tell me your passive xovers will have freq/slope adjustability via jumpers, least you could do considering the drivers....

 

[noob with an RS 10+ year member]

you may want to grow a sack someday and try it......sure beats having your nose dipped in shyt all the time

i'll kiss whoever's ass i wanna kiss beyotch! don't be mad that it ain't yerz!!!!!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif