Best midbass speaker

[Paradigmonds]

Hello gents,

I'm looking to purchase a set of High SQ midbass speakers that I'm going to put into my rear doors. I'm putting together a SQ system that is basically going to be broken down into 5 frequency ranges ( subwoofer, midbass, low midrange, high midrange, and high frequency ) I need a good transition from my subs to my midbass. I tend to have a feeling that the midbass frequency range has been lacking in my systems in the past, so that is why I'm focusing on it quite a bit this time.

My front stage is going to consist of a 3-way component system with an extra set of tweeters. I'm thinking about getting some Hertz Mille 1600's to use as my front door mids, but they will likely be high passed at around 150-200 Hz @ 18/db octave.

My subs ( two 12"s, yet to be decided on what brand, will likely be low-pass crossed at 80 Hz 18 or 24 db/octave )

So, thats where my mid-bass back doors come in. I'm going to add some extra stabilization to the doors. I'm going to put in a couple of vibration dampened cross braces inside the door to add stability, as well as putting in some extra dampener, foam, and MLV.

The holes are cut for 6.5's right now, but I would not be opposed to putting in a couple of 8" dedicated midbass speakers. I want them to have a strong punch, but also have good musicality.

They will be bandpass crossed over and only producing frequencies from 100Hz - 300Hz with a 12db slope on each side.

They will be fed somewhere between 125 watts and 175 watts each. depending on which amp that I use. If someone suggests something that requires more power, I might consider bridging those rear channels on the amp, which will give me about 225+ to each speaker.

I should have plenty of mounting depth for either a large frame/large motor 6 1/2", 6 3/4". For a 7" or 8", I probably can't go with anything that is an actual subwoofer, but I would think any dedicated mid-bass of that size should fit nicely.

I'm not opposed to buying used speakers, especially here on the forums. Price range I'm looking to stay in is under $225-$250 for the pair.

The only ones that I have really looked at so far are the:

CDT Audio ES-06 6.5” extended bass mid woofer

CDT Audio ES-06+ 6.8" long excursion subwoofer

CDT Audio HD-M6 Superior Audiophile extended bass mid-woofer

Hertz HV-200 Hi Energy 8" mid-woofer

Anyone with experience with these speakers or who has suggestions on others that I should try, please let me know.

Thanks much! Have a good one!

Paradigmonds

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

I used JL ZR800s and loved them. You need to keep any mid bass up front though. It's designed to bring the bass up front. I would also bring them down to 60hz or so.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

The Milles with a proper installation and sound deadening should give you plenty of midbass. However, since you asked...

HD-M6+ is intended for use in a sealed or ported enclosure, not playing into a door. Cross that off your list.

ES-06 and HD-M6 are very similar, but they sound different. ES-06 may give you a bit fatter and warmer tone. With B-stock pricing that I can offer ES-06 will come in well under your budget. I would leave the rear midbass idea as a backup plan. I have no use for extra midbass speakers in my vehicle.

 

[Paradigmonds]

I used JL ZR800s and loved them. You need to keep any mid bass up front though. It's designed to bring the bass up front. I would also bring them down to 60hz or so.

You mentioned that in a previous post of mine DDtC, and I do understand that. The problem is that I have much less mounting depth in my front doors, which is fine for a regular 6.5" or 6 3/4" speaker. In fact, I blew one of my MB Quart Components, so today I am installing a set of CDT CL-E6 6.5" in the front doors.

The back doors, on the other hand are 1. close to the front of the door, so they are closer to the listener's ears than the front door speakers & 2. have plenty of mounting depth, so I would have no problem putting in a larger driver.

I definitely don't want this mid-bass driver to pull my staging back from the windshield/hood, but I do want more mid-bass presence than just the 6.5" in my front doors can provide ( without low-passing my subs any higher than 80Hz or so )

( Just to make a comment and hijack my own thread, I took the TW-25 tweeters from this CDT Component system that I got yesterday and I just temporarily wired them and put them in my vehicle in the same places that I have the current MB-Quart 3/4" titanium tweeters. Now, don't get me wrong. I actually like my MB Quarts, the tweeters especially. They are a pair of the old German made titanium tweets and they are one of the few super accurate, but non-fatiguing non-sibilant metal tweeters that I've heard. Its really surprising how different the CDT and MB Quart tweets sound, and not because of the silk vs metal difference. As far as the reproduction of the sound, they actually sound rather similar, but the CDT tweeter actually has a sound which makes it seem like the cymbals and other high frequency sounds are actually originating several feet behind the tweeter. I really have no idea how the tune the speaker to do this, but it really makes me understand why, when I was running CDT Front Imaging Enhancement tweets on my last system, that I had some of the best imaging and the most widespread and distant staging that I've had. I can't wait to get these CDT mids and tweeters installed tomorrow. )

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Can you do them in the kick or under the dash?

 

[Paradigmonds]

Can you do them in the kick or under the dash?

Ehhh, kickpanels, maybe. The problem is that I wanted to do a really hefty 6.5"-7.0" or even a dedicated midbass 8". I was thinking about doing kick panels, but I'm just concerned that to make a kick panel large enough to house a speaker that will have the motor/magnet size for what I'm wanting will probably have, the kicks will stick out so far it would be comical. Maybe I can find a hardcore midbass with a Neo motor and make some really sturdy sealed kickpanels. Hell, I could probably even make them about 0.6 cu/ft and get some real midbass out of them.

At what frequency does directionality begin becoming an issue? I know that subwoofer bass is uni-directional, but at what point does the location of the speaker begin truly affecting your staging and imaging? 100Hz? 200Hz?

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Mid 100s and up.

 

[trumpet 5,000+ posts]

Kick panels are good for equalizing path lengths, but a 6.5"+ woofer is going to be extremely choked down there for air space. 0.6 cubes is a lot bigger than you realize. People who make kick panels work well for midbass do so with extra work beyond building a baffle, sealing it against the chassis and dropping in a woofer.

 

[Paradigmonds]

OK. well to help me move forward with my search and my purchase, lets just assume that I am going to find a place to put them. Maybe I can figure out a way to get some larger drivers in my front doors, maybe I make some sealed kick enclosures.

Regardless of how I mount them, what 6 1/2", 6 3/4", 7", or 8" dedicated midbass do folks around here really think is a winner? I just want something that's going to do a great job of producing frequencies between 60Hz and 300 Hz, and be both accurate and powerful.

Right now I'm looking at the JL Audio ZR800, Dayton RS-180 7" Midbass, and Hertz Hi-Energy 8" midbass. Any other suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks!

 

[pickup1 5,000+ posts]

I like my Volvo/dynaudio 8"...actually 8.75"..midbass... they rock..down to 50hz.

 

[pickup1 5,000+ posts]

 

[pickup1 5,000+ posts]

Found mine for $100 a pair....last set on DIY went for around 125.

 

[Roland 10+ year member]

The Jl Zr 800 are great not sure what's the optimum power for them? I runing Dynaudio mw172 in my new van and they are very good also, but they like more power than 175wrms.

Im' curious why 2 sets of tweeter for a SQ system?

 

[kramer_212 10+ year member]

I used JL ZR800s and loved them. You need to keep any mid bass up front though. It's designed to bring the bass up front. I would also bring them down to 60hz or so.

+1, i have the zr 8" in my kick panels now really brings the system together.

 

[Paradigmonds]

Im' curious why 2 sets of tweeter for a SQ system?

Two reasons..........main reason is that I actually find that if I position them right and get my TA set up correctly, I can get a wider soundstage and a little bit more open sound. I was into super high end headphones and IEM's a long while before I got into car audio so my ear may be tuned more toward width than depth when it comes to staging.

Second reason is that I usually have a larger silk tweeter ( 1.5" ) that I will run a little lower ( 2.5k Hz - 7k Hz ) and then a titanium tweeter that I will run higher ( 4k Hz -20k Hz ) Thats actually not what I have right now. Right now I've got a pair of Polk MOMO and a pair of CDT Audio tweeters and both are silk, but the sound is still good.

I'm planning to make the jump to a 3-way component set soon and I might eliminate the 2nd tweeter at that point, but maybe not, it'll just depend on the sound.

I haven't decided what 3 way set I want to go for yet. The only one that I've really auditioned is the Hertz Mille, which I loved, but I don't want to drop $1200 on a component set. I might be able to get them as separates, though.

I'm also considering just looking for a good quality 2"-3" midrange right now and adding it to my current setup, but I will need a passive crossover. I'm running my 80PRS active, so I don't want a midrange trying to reproduce down to 100HZ like the 6.5's in the doors. Biggest problem for the midrange is the dash location where they will go. Its plenty wide enough for a 2"-3" driver, but the depth is minimal, maybe 2" at most. I might start a post looking for a recommendation.

Thanks for the advice!

Para