Best lithium battery setup for 4k???

[Kybasshead75]

Just got a 320 amp mechman and want to run a lithium battery that would well support 4k daily system. Never done a lithium setup before

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[Popwarhomie 5,000+ posts]

One bank of Yinlongs.

 

[No Show]

One bank of Yinlongs.

Thanks for that update. I have never wired up the yinlongs myself and am in the same situation as the OP. Is there anything we really need to lookout for while doing this ?
Thank you

 

[Kybasshead75]

One bank of Yinlongs.

I keep hearing about these yinlongs! Would 80 hrs worth work and how would I run the cars electric system separately?
I'd rather run the powerful battery in back close to the amp and have a smaller one where the factory one was.
Iv heard of people running just lithium, I'd say that would be better as an agm would likely drag a lithium down. Newbie here

 

[jt4x4]

I found this helpful article today regarding wiring.

How To Wire AGM and Lithium Batteries Together - JY Power

Learn the right way to wire lithium batteries together with factory or AGM batteries.

www.jypwr.com

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for that update. I have never wired up the yinlongs myself and am in the same situation as the OP. Is there anything we really need to lookout for while doing this ?

Yes. Do not mount them under the hood and do not attempt to run them along with AGM or other types of lithium. LTO is very tolerant to low temperature but not so much to high temp. Under the hood is a bad idea.

I keep hearing about these yinlongs! Would 80 hrs worth work and how would I run the cars electric system separately?

Run 6S banks and you can charge up to 15.5. The rest of your car might not like charging high and 6S LTO bank will function fine mid 14V where most vehicles will try to charge. My brother and I have 240AH banks, they will support 10,000-15,000W without dropping voltage more than a couple tenths. I saw a guy with 120AH bank running a pair of DC 5Ks at a show last weekend and his voltage was dropping about .5V

Keep in mind their "C Rating" is 10C which means max charge/discharge current should be no more than 10X the amp hour rating. SO if you had an 80AH bank you could expect 800A draw out of it or charge it with up to 800A before you hurt them. Toshiba SCIB cells and some of the new Lishen (sp?) cells are boasting 50C+ ratings, but IMO there's no sense in skimping on reserve here unless you have a REX or Yugo where space is your big limiting factor and you're only looking for 3 second burst type application.

Even at today's price on the YingLong cells they're a good value compared to AGM, and they're a fraction of the weight and space, AND they're meant to last 20 years. There's absolutely no reason to skimp on size here IMO.... Put it this way, pay 360 a whack for three YingLong banks then compare performance with three 360$ meme brand AGM batteries.

Our DIY LTO build log here:
https://www.caraudio.com/threads/lithium-titanate-lto-battery-bank-build.600099/

 

[mrj858 10+ year member]

Another vote for yin long....I added 120ah to my 14 banks of caps ( Alts are dual Singer 370s) and the lowest I drop is 14.6 from 15.6 clamping roughly 40k
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[Kybasshead75]

I found this helpful article today regarding wiring.

How To Wire AGM and Lithium Batteries Together - JY Power

Learn the right way to wire lithium batteries together with factory or AGM batteries.

www.jypwr.com

Thank you, awesome

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

Yes. Do not mount them under the hood and do not attempt to run them along with AGM or other types of lithium. LTO is very tolerant to low temperature but not so much to high temp. Under the hood is a bad idea.

Run 6S banks and you can charge up to 15.5. The rest of your car might not like charging high and 6S LTO bank will function fine mid 14V where most vehicles will try to charge. My brother and I have 240AH banks, they will support 10,000-15,000W without dropping voltage more than a couple tenths. I saw a guy with 120AH bank running a pair of DC 5Ks at a show last weekend and his voltage was dropping about .5V

Keep in mind their "C Rating" is 10C which means max charge/discharge current should be no more than 10X the amp hour rating. SO if you had an 80AH bank you could expect 800A draw out of it or charge it with up to 800A before you hurt them. Toshiba SCIB cells and some of the new Lishen (sp?) cells are boasting 50C+ ratings, but IMO there's no sense in skimping on reserve here unless you have a REX or Yugo where space is your big limiting factor and you're only looking for 3 second burst type application.

Even at today's price on the YingLong cells they're a good value compared to AGM, and they're a fraction of the weight and space, AND they're meant to last 20 years. There's absolutely no reason to skimp on size here IMO.... Put it this way, pay 360 a whack for three YingLong banks then compare performance with three 360$ meme brand AGM batteries.

Our DIY LTO build log here:
https://www.caraudio.com/threads/lithium-titanate-lto-battery-bank-build.600099/

Took me a minute to find the spec sheet, but it still blows my mind that they're rated for 10c charge. I'm sure it's going to reduce life span but if you can get 5k, let alone 10k cycles out of them the LTO chemistry really is amazing except for their energy density (power density is also a little low but it's in line with LiIon which can only be charged at 1-1.5c).

You're spot on with the lack of a need for 50c, I'd rather have a more stable chemistry that can handle a large amount of alt output. 50c would equate to 2ka on one bank lol. Instead, like you've said to me in the past, just get a larger bank and size it with your alternator idle output in mind. One 80ah bank is 800a of discharge which is inline with 90% of the builds out there running a 12k (unless they're wired in the dirt and playing tones with low alt output).

I've been skeptical of every single lithium battery people boast about, but the LTO's are starting to grow on me. I don't think I've seen any failures due to the cells themselves yet and we have people who know literally nothing about lithium chemistries who beat them to death.

The biggest thing stopping me from using LTO cells is due to the need for a battery delete. I could probably get away with a relay but the AGM wouldn't be doing anything. As more novel casing solutions come out and drop in price it'll make more sense.

Curious to see how your big ass bank will react once you get closer to 15k-20k of draw

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Curious to see how your big ass bank will react once you get closer to 15k-20k of draw

According to the shop I bought the Soundigital from guys are running 30-40K worth of rated power off the size bank I'm using. Consider where I'm sitting I'm going to melt coils long before I run out of reserve regardless of how much power the amps are rated. That said I really didn't want to run these banks at even 5C so as to go easy on them. I've still got about 6 feet of that copper bar up in my garage and my guy in China can get me cells with no MOQ limitations so if necessary I'd throw on another 80 or 120AH. OR since my brother only makes one or two shows a year I could always just borrow his bank most of the time if it came to it.

Neither the Soundigital or the two Sundowns are dropping voltage more than 2-3 tenths as it stands though. Precision told me they're buried in orders so a round of d2.8 coils may not happen for a few months, though at this point I'm considering getting a quad coil for if I need to run 4 amps.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

According to the shop I bought the Soundigital from guys are running 30-40K worth of rated power off the size bank I'm using. Consider where I'm sitting I'm going to melt coils long before I run out of reserve regardless of how much power the amps are rated. That said I really didn't want to run these banks at even 5C so as to go easy on them. I've still got about 6 feet of that copper bar up in my garage and my guy in China can get me cells with no MOQ limitations so if necessary I'd throw on another 80 or 120AH. OR since my brother only makes one or two shows a year I could always just borrow his bank most of the time if it came to it.

Neither the Soundigital or the two Sundowns are dropping voltage more than 2-3 tenths as it stands though. Precision told me they're buried in orders so a round of d2.8 coils may not happen for a few months, though at this point I'm considering getting a quad coil for if I need to run 4 amps.

Third of your SFB-8k listed for $450 used just to give you an idea of that option if you wanted to go to four

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

SFB-8k listed for $450 used just to give you an idea of that option if you wanted to go to four

Yeah, I figured used/refurb would go for about that but I'd much rather do this with as few amps as possible. I worry that gain matching will be tricky and phase matching impossible with those. And assuming we can get the Soundigital sorted out I'm still not opposed to running those just to be different. Might depend on whether or not Precision can even get me in for a run of new coils before the amps start popping up.