Battery configuration question

[Lawilt]

I am installing a new system in my boat so this battery question might be a little bit different than the same old BS.

The system includes:

2 Alpine PDX-1.1000 sub amps powering 2 x 13w7s

1 Alpine PDX-4.150 mid/high amp powering 6 Boston Accoustic SL95 6x9 interior speakers.

1 Alpine PDX-4.150 mid/high amp powering 4 Boston Accoustic SR65 tower speakers.

I know that people here don't care for the PDXs but they are very efficient and for my application they are the balance between power and battery conservation (to last all day at the lake).

I am new at this so the batteries I bought are 3 x Kinetic HC2000 to power my amp section, and 2 x Kinetic HC800 batteries for my onboard electronics + starting.

I realize now that my amp section is a little light... I will try to add another HC2000 soon but I have to say, my wife is already a little pissed that I've spent >$1000 just on batteries...

My questions are:

Should I use breakers or fuses between the batteries? What sizes?

Do I need fuses between the distro. blocks and the amps?

Should I use the standard dial type of battery switch to go between onboard and stereo battery charging? (I plan to use a charger to charge the batteries after uses at the lake, not rely fully on the alternator).

Is there a problem with running the amp batteries from the back of the boat and using 0awg cables up front to distro. blocks (about 15') and break power out to the amps? Do I lose very much power by not having the batteries as close as possible to the amps? (I want them placed to the rear for added ballast).

Ideas?? I am istalling this coming week so any info/ideas have to come pretty quick for me to use them in this initial build.

Click to read more...

 

[Saint211 10+ year member]

When I do a battery bank in an intstall, we typically have the alternator in the front along with a front battery. For a large battery bank I like to run a dedicated ground along with power. the fuse is mainly a safety device to blow during a surge, typically a short to prevent damage to components and potential risk for damage or fire. Thats why its good to have the main power runs from front to back fused as they actually run through the vehicle.

First thing I need to clarify is how you're going to use the system. It sounds like to me you are going to take a cruise somewhere, sit there and switch from powering the boat to powering the system and play some tunes and hang out. Also I'm assuming the alternator is towards the rear of the boat near the area the battery bank is going to be. Also I'm assuming there is already a stock battery in the back of the boat to aid in starting. You have a few options here.

I would install the battery bank where you are installing it. If they are all next to each other and you have maybe a foot power runs from terminal to terminal people generally dont fuse inbetween each battery. It is perfectly fine to run a 15' power run to distribution blocks but in this instance I would install fuses from that/those wire(s) and either at the distribution block or before it to protect from any short in that 15' run. You could get away with one 0 AWG wire but you probably will have some voltage drop at peak levels. I would probably use 2 runs. If the amps dont have onboard fusing on the amps you need to fuse from the distro block to the amp. Technically you dont have to if the amps are fused, but if its a long run to the amp a fuse will help protect it and generally wont hurt anything except from sometimes additonal voltage drop(while minimal, unless you have junk equipment) I have to go for the moment I have an install but shoot me a pm and I will help you with how to set up the charging system and how to switch inbetween the two or wire them totally separate.

 

[Lawilt]

Thanks, exactly the feedback i wanted.

My amps are fused and within one foot of the distro blocks so I'll do away with breakers on the amp lines. I'm planning to use a breaker(s) for the main power line from batteries to distro block. Total amps my amplifiers are fused for = 280 amps. If I run 2 0awg power lines from the batts do I use 2 breagers that are say 150 amps each?

What awg wire should I use for communication between the batteries? Should it also be 0awg or could I get away with 4awg between batteries and 0awg out to distro blocks?

I am planning tho use the large battery bank just to power the stereo. It will most often be charged by running a charger on it at home. Some charging might be accomplished whil wakeboarding but the majority will be from shore power.

I am attaching a quick schematic of how I imagine the set up looking. I don't have the breakers or the dual power lines to the amps shown but I plan to include them in my build. with this set up I imagine I can run the boat off switch 2 and simultaneously run the stereo off of bank one, keeping the two systems seperate unless I switch it to 1&2 to charge the stereo batts while underway.

 

[Lawilt]

Oops... I just noticed that on my schematic I put HC1200 on the batts. They are actually all HC2000, and i do plan to add a fourth to that bank soon.

 

[Saint211 10+ year member]

Do you have a link to or picture of the type of switch you are using? I would like to see it or know more about it. From the looks of the diagram what you have should work provided the switch is correct except for the diagram is missing the charging wire from the switch to the amp battery bank.

A common misconception is that you need to fuse a main power line roughly for the fuse ratings of your equipment when infact its better to fuse for the capacity of the wire. be careful though because this somewhat depends on what wire you use and of what quality it is. How I would wire youir setup is I would fuse each power line back at about 300 amps, 250 amps if you have smaller 0 gauge or copper plated aluminum wire, something like knukonceptz klmx. Troubel you will have is finding a fuse breaker rated that high. If you choose to go with a breaker 150 amps would work since you normally shouldnt be exceeding that unless there is a short. 200-300 would be ideal as it allows a maximum amount of current to flow througth such a size wire without risking anything more in degree of safety. The idea for the 2x 0 AWG wires is to reduce the amount of voltage drop. Very good 4 AWG will handle up to 140-150 amps before fusing itself but in a 15' run at peak power you would still have voltage drop. Voltage drop = less output from amplifier and also potential damage to audio equipment if it drops too low. In your case I would do the 2x 0AWG wire runs to the back, each with a breaker/fuse off of the battery bank in the back, run each one up to a distribution block in the front, preferably fused(if not fuse it before the block) then run one 1.1000 and one 4.150 on each line. The only thing you would have to decide would bge how to do your ground connections. For your setup everything would have to share a ground circuit, which in a car would typically be the chassis. Not sure how good a boat is for this, but with a battery bank of any size and give such a length of run I would probably run dedicated grounds. In your case 2 ground runs would be ideal, setup exactly like the powers but unfused. This brings me to another question of yours. Between each battery, 0 AWG would be ideal, as short as possible.

 

[Saint211 10+ year member]

I should clarify the diagram is missing the charging wire from the position where it charges 1&2 to the amp battery bank. Sorry.

 

[Lawilt]

Great! I already have a distrobution block for the ground too. I'll set it up with two 0awg power lines and two 0awg ground, Fused on the power side. I already have one 200 amp breaker. I'll get a second breaker and run one on each of the 0awg power lines from the battery.

I like your idea about dedicating one power line and ground line to each sub/mid hi amp.

I was rough drafting the schematic with regard to the switch. My boat is in getting de-winterized right now but I'll send a picture tomorrow of the switch that's already installed.

I plan on the stereo 90% of the time being run off of the battery bank. I am wondering if I am running the boat and charging the Amp battery bank with the stereo on will it tax the alternator too much or just draw the extra amperage needed from the batteries?

 

[Saint211 10+ year member]

It will draw whatever is being outputted from the alternator which depends on RPMs. Alternators always have power ratings. There is an at-idle output and a peak output. You come closer to the peak output at high revs while the idle is a continuous output at idle. Whatever cont be produced by the alternator will be drawn from the batteries. In a car application high-power is demanded during crescendos or heavy bass, but in lulls in the music or between heavy bass hits its not demanding full power. This allows the alternator to charge the batteries up even if its not a high output alternator. It has been my experience though that an alternator driving a system lasts a little less longer than a normal one though. One can strain an alternator.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Kinetik High Current Power Cells I would also spread the load around the bank on the 2 1000 watt amps.

 

[Lawilt]

Thanks, I like the idea of spliiting the batteries between each of the two sets of sub and mid/high amps. I think I'll incorporate that into the build.

Larry