B&w Vs Svs

1loudsuv, you can go on being ignorant all you like. Let me explain to you a little bit the variables involved with infra/sub sonic reproduction. The transfer function of the room dominates the frequency response, so frequency response is a very hard variable to control between listening rooms, but should stay pretty consistent from driver to driver. The power response of the sub can be considered negligible since the radiating surface of the driver and the speaker baffle are much less than the wavelengths being reproduced, so homogeneous reproduction (excluding room resonances) can be expected. The transient behavior of the driver can also be considered negligible since the cycles we're dealing are much longer than the overhang caused by the driver, and the room resonances dominate the decay behavior of the low frequencies. This leaves us with one big factor...harmonic distortion, and since our hearing sensitivity sharply declines as the frequency goes lower, the harmonic may actually exceed the fundamental in amplitude. The distortion profile of subs dominates the subjective differences. The design (open baffle, dipole, sealed, cardiod, bass reflex, etc) dominate the frequency response and room resonance profile.

Power compression is also a serious consideration, but at the moment I don't feel educated enough in the area to go into great detail. What I can tell you though, is that a high efficiency design with low power requirements will get louder and sound better than a low efficiency high power requirement driver as far as dynamics are considered. Just because a driver can handle X amount of watts, does not mean it will remain linear with SPL as the power is increased. As a driver is expected to handle more power, the theoretical 3dB gain caused by doubling of power is reduced by power compression. It will not get as loud as it should.

I've backed up my claims with physics and objective data...all you've brought to the discussion is "I don't care, it doesn't matter".

 
I have more proof and experience in my pinky then you ever will... by the who the fudge are you? some 15 year old boy? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/graduate.gif.d982460be9f153bb54e5d4cb744f6ae8.gif
Who am I? Someone who's done far more research than you have, go ahead and search for my posts. I'm respected on several forums. You might learn something.

Yep you and your lover joetemaam agree //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif You can argue all you want but in the end I have the proof of at least 7 years of experience in car audio... where is your proof? My box was designed/built by someone who shits more knowledge then you do //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif
Me and Joetama? You might as well throw Squeak9798 in there too. We all agree that you are ignorant and misinformed. If that makes us lovers, well then I guess thats a discussion of semantics.

Your 7 years of experiences doesn't mean shit if you haven't learned anything in the process. You've been in the game for 7 years...and yet you can't design your own box ahah. Designing a standard sealed/bass reflex box is one of the most fundamental concepts in speaker design.

OK let me see just the THD graph no other nonsense....

BTW go enjoy your $100 sub I bet it sound "the bomb" to you. and go play with some more modeling and graphs.... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nerd.gif.c6fa51ddf7ff75f1c0371fbc648f70ae.gif
Thats just being ignorant, dismissing objective data. Real intelligent. BTW I never modeled any driver, please quote my "modeled driver response". I provided additional THD graphs...the same data that you based your entire argument on.

 
Pretty pointless thread, so I'll add some more useless info. LOL

IMO...for the majority of 2 channel music if you have large mains than a sub is not even required. I rarely use my subs for music as my mains can easily play down to the low 30's without dropping off severely.

For HT I wouldn't think of watching a movie without my subs on as the impact they add is FAR greater than the mains can provide.

Musical sub/HT sub are 2 different animals with 2 diff purposes.

BTW...I run 2 15" RL-P's in 10cubes each @ 19Hz getting 400watts each and they provide ALL the bass I could ever need.

TC2000 is a VERY nice HT driver BTW...good choice!!!

 
Just curious.....you mention power compression then state you could care less about graphs. Do you know what power compression is?



I also find these statements funny, considering you started this thread by posting graphs:
Where did I mention power compression?

1. This guy has to bring up his dayton into the conversation and act immature about it saying both **** and his is better, It is a thread of svs vs b&w not what do you own or what do you think is better...

 
Musical sub/HT sub are 2 different animals with 2 diff purposes.

BTW...I run 2 15" RL-P's in 10cubes each @ 19Hz getting 400watts each and they provide ALL the bass I could ever need.

TC2000 is a VERY nice HT driver BTW...good choice!!!
Thats what I designed my sub for.. Ht, not really to play music and sound the best as possible, but to play loud and low and sound decent while doing all of the above.

 
1loudsuv, you can go on being ignorant all you like. Let me explain to you a little bit the variables involved with infra/sub sonic reproduction.
I've backed up my claims with physics and objective data...all you've brought to the discussion is "I don't care, it doesn't matter".
But really do you expect me to believe anything you say when you arejust someone who wont even post your age,name? Or any kind of proof besides your post's on a forum? like some kind of achievements? maybe in iasca? sq or spl or dbdrag meca or anything? I see allot of bookworms like yourself that end up scratching their head big time the first time they build a car for spl/sq competition and get beat by someone who doesn't put as much time into physics and actually puts it into real world testing.

Ok lets see may I at least know your name? your competition history? a picture of your setup? an FR graph if possible?

My box builder designer has built allot of world champion cars.. so he must know what his doing, no use really debating what I know since I didnt build my box, I designed it and he fixed whatever he saw wrong with it, which to him was tuning frequency only, box size he said was perfect, but if that isnt enough I also have dbdrag stats going as far back as 2000....

 
First of all I am no one's lover but B&W_Girl... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif (and she's dancing around ***** next to me:up2somet://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/santa.gif.e1ec9cf2e0a0dd232ad35aa594a126d0.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/moon.gif.9d317aec3339ffe7fde0638df52c628a.gif, plus she knows more about Home Audio than you... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif)

And she is cuter than those other guys anyway...

Second of all you 'experience' doesn't mean shit to me. Just because you have 'experience' doesn't mean you know what you are talking about!!! The fact that you have to say things like "are you a 15 year old kid" just shows your ignorance even though you are WAY more experienced than us...

Third, your 'experience' is in the car audio world, which is 100% different animal than Home Audio.

Fourth, you just don't have a clue. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Just remember who you used to PM with questions... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/spank.gif.0d78e34d42ea8780359e903aeb6697d6.gif

 
Where did I mention power compression?
 

Ya it is unheard of, of a sub to handle 900 watts... power compression? I can give two shits about stupid graphs and all, the thing that matters to me is

 

1. it sounds good to my ear

2. it gets loud

3. looks good

 

If you have different goals don't try to implement them onto me cause they are useless to me...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif
 

You brought it up right there, ignoring the problem instead of providing a solution.

 

1. This guy has to bring up his dayton into the conversation and act immature about it saying both **** and his is better, It is a thread of svs vs b&w not what do you own or what do you think is better...
 

I brought the RSS315HF up to show that 10% distortion is not a good goal for a subwoofer. There are perfectly affordable and cheap options available for a little over $100. BTW I own the RSS390HF, not the RSS315HF which I provided objective data (excursion plots, and non-linear distortion measurements).

 
Where did I mention power compression?
Reread my post, specifically your quotes which are in my post;

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3336411&postcount=45

I wasn't sure if the "power compression ?" in your post (which I quoted) was actually a question because you didn't know what power compression was, or if you mistakenly thought it somehow related to a graph and the following sentence about not giving two shits about graphs was a statement about your thoughts on power compression.

1. This guy has to bring up his dayton into the conversation and act immature about it saying both **** and his is better, It is a thread of svs vs b&w not what do you own or what do you think is better...
Then it would have been a little more appropriate to say that you didn't give two shits about his Dayton. But instead you went on to talk about how you don't care about graphs and sound/looks are far more important to you.....and mocking him for posting graphs......which is ironic considering you started this thread to compare two products with graphs.

 
First of all I am no one's lover but B&W_Girl... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif (and she's dancing around ***** next to me:up2somet://content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/santa.gif.e1ec9cf2e0a0dd232ad35aa594a126d0.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/moon.gif.9d317aec3339ffe7fde0638df52c628a.gif, plus she knows more about Home Audio than you... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif)
And she is cuter than those other guys anyway...

Second of all you 'experience' doesn't mean shit to me. Just because you have 'experience' doesn't mean you know what you are talking about!!! The fact that you have to say things like "are you a 15 year old kid" just shows your ignorance even though you are WAY more experienced than us...

Third, your 'experience' is in the car audio world, which is 100% different animal than Home Audio.

Fourth, you just don't have a clue. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

Just remember who you used to PM with questions... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/spank.gif.0d78e34d42ea8780359e903aeb6697d6.gif
And ive had chad call me ask me questions, we all can learn from each other, arguing wont get us anywhere...

 
And ive had chad call me ask me questions, we all can learn from each other, arguing wont get us anywhere...
Chad who? And why do I care?

You made this thread thinking you were all big and bad and now it has blown up in your face so you have to pull out the 'experience' card...

Good game guy...

 
Then it would have been a little more appropriate to say that you didn't give two shits about his Dayton. But instead you went on to talk about how you don't care about graphs and sound/looks are far more important to you.....and mocking him for posting graphs......which is ironic considering you started this thread to compare two products with graphs.
I don't care about his graphs...All they are, are graphs of bl curve,inductance,They are related to the output of the sub but I never asked for those I asked for a thd graph and an fr graph.

 
Chad who? And why do I care?
You made this thread thinking you were all big and bad and now it has blown up in your face so you have to pull out the 'experience' card...

Good game guy...
Chad geary and ive even had team xs spl jeffrey call me before asking me for advice on a box for his suv, but like I said we all can learn from each other..
Blown up in my face how? a couple of your friends backing you up? I wish I had e friends to...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/redface.gif.62fdbfe1a101588a808c4cff71bcb942.gif

 
But really do you expect me to believe anything you say when you arejust someone who wont even post your age,name? Or any kind of proof besides your post's on a forum? like some kind of achievements? maybe in iasca? sq or spl or dbdrag meca or anything? I see allot of bookworms like yourself that end up scratching their head big time the first time they build a car for spl/sq competition and get beat by someone who doesn't put as much time into physics and actually puts it into real world testing.
Ok lets see may I at least know your name? your competition history? a picture of your setup? an FR graph if possible?

My box builder designer has built allot of world champion cars.. so he must know what his doing, no use really debating what I know since I didnt build my box, I designed it and he fixed whatever he saw wrong with it, which to him was tuning frequency only, box size he said was perfect, but if that isnt enough I also have dbdrag stats going as far back as 2000....
Why would I provide experience for the car audio world? I'm not involved in car audio (specifically SPL competitions), nor wish to get involved. It's not something I'd ever be interested in doing. I'm much more heavily involved with home audio. You don't have to accept what I have to say, look it up for yourself but you'll just come to the same conclusion.

 
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