Are 8's the new 12's?

[ibanender 10+ year member]

How am I backtracking one bit? Let me point out wht I first typed:
"The -3 dB frequency (F3) of an enclosure is proportional to Fs. Fs of a speaker is proportional to its cone size. 8's just wont have the same low end as a comparable larger sub."

Is the -3db point not related to Fs? Yes, it is. Does Fs for a given sub go down as cone size goes up? Yes, it does. That was my point originally, and that's been my point all along.

Im well aware of the Fs of RE8's and the like. I also know their 10 and 12" versions have a lower Fs. Again, been my point since post #1 here.

No, I dont wanna play that moving mass has something to do with how low it plays. Im talking about Fs as its related to cone size. When have I mentioned moving mass? Ive read Dan's tech papers on inductance versus moving mass, so if Ive given you the impression I think its about the moving mass, Ive given you the wrong impression. I know better.

And on your final element to add, let me put it in perspective.... wouldn't a 6.5" version of that same speaker have played lower than 30hz, given the same enclosure design? Again, people in this thread are trying to put words in my mouth, words saying 8's cant play low, etc etc. I have never said that, Im simply comparing sub sizes. Larger version will play deeper (all other factors the same), are you saying that's not true? It is true. And if so, the statement that cone size has "nothing" to do with how low it plays is simply not true.

Hopefully this clears things up.

Let's look at this from an subjective perspective.... a real person listening to music, not a meter.

Current model RE line from Resonant Engineering:

8" Fs is 22.8 hz

10" Fs is 21.5 hz

12" Fs is 20 hz

Given the same design type and such to give equal opportunity, do you REALLY think the user will hear the 1-2 hz difference in low end? Also consider that the Fs on all of them are under 23 hz, which very VERY few musical recordings play at all. So, in all reality, any sizes ability to play below 30 hz is essentially pointless as it wont be used.

Explain to me how F3 of a box has a direct relation to its cone size. Don't tell me it is, explain WHY.

Explain to me how F3 of a box has a direct relation to a subs Fs. Again, don't tell me it is, explain WHY. You can have the same sub in 2 different volumes tuned the same and the F3 will be different.

You say a bigger cone size lowers the Fs, but why is that? It's not because the cone got bigger, its the added moving mass. You could counter-act that by adding even more mass in the form of a spider (or even simply changing the spider) and make the Fs go UP. So, you could very easily make a 15 have a higher Fs than a 10 in the same line, with the same coil and motor. Plain and simple, the Fs has to do with the suspension. The same EVERYTHING except spiders could give you a 10 hz Fs or a 50 hz Fs.

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

I was refering to SQ good.
And I think 2 Mag 15's is plenty loud. Last night I was told to turn it down because the significant other was having trouble breathing.

Danity Kane may be a crappy group buy at least Diddy did the beats right. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

My two DD 3510's will do that...Why would anyone need 15's ?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/up2something.gif.dd110ecf3ae4b76050d87598f2f8de7c.gif

 

[Imtjnotu 5,000+ posts]

does no one like the 8w7

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

does no one like the 8w7

In comparison test...the DD 1008a was 3 db louder than the 8w7

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

Just because its louder, doesnt mean its better...

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

handles more power...plays lower.....and sounds better...so I'd still say better...but that is only my opinion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[80INCHES 5,000+ posts]

um heres my theory...and if anyone feels that i'm wrong..i will value your opinion

but i feel any sub can hit the lows....its all box dependent...so if a sub that has a high fs(35hz and higher) will need a bigger box to play the lows pretty well

but a sub that has a low fs will not need a box as big to hit the lows decently

but at the same time qts and vas. has a part to play in this as well

so u really can base a sub on fs alone theres other varibles that play apart in this equation

80

i hope folks understand where i'm comming from

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

handles more power...plays lower.....and sounds better...so I'd still say better...but that is only my opinion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You are a DD fanboi

Anything that DD makes will sound better, play lower and take more power

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[davidfre21 5,000+ posts]

lol at the anti eD avatar i made like 2 years ago //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

You used to sport it, i remember

 

[davidfre21 5,000+ posts]

yep and i remember him using it as well as a couple other members, brings back memories //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crying.gif.ec0ebefe590df0251476573bc49e46d8.gif

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

You are a DD fanboiAnything that DD makes will sound better, play lower and take more power

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Well I guess I am...but 3 years straight of first place wins at car audio events has made me see the light....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I'm not saying there arn't any better subs or amps out there....But DD has never let me down...plus there customer support is the greatest....I still play with some different brands because like to experiment...I've even tried a couple of other brands in competition in the past couple of years...that I heard were doing well....but by the next show I'd be back with DD's getting louder and louder...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Chevyaudio 5,000+ posts]

Louder doesnt mean better. Listen to an SI mag, and watch it walk on the DDs in the SQ department.

 

[supa_c 5,000+ posts]

How dare you say that !

DD'Z PWN ALL !

 

[davidfre21 5,000+ posts]

DD really makes a great product, overlybuilt also