Are 8's the new 12's?

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

These 4 DD 1008a's did a street beat score of 147+ and a outlaw score of 150+ at ark blast this past summer...They hit lower and are louder than anyones 15's I've ever heard that run daily....

DD's 8's aint no joke but i've yet to hear a DD sub that sounded anywhere near as good as my Mags.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

wrong you dumbass!!
those woofers are too small to play that low. i bet you money it didnt play as low as when he had the wall of 12"s, or 15"s //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

Please cease attempting to misrepresent my words as saying 8's wont play low. My comments have all been under the pretense of comparing like model drivers, only change is size (only fair way to compare sizes... wouldnt you agree?). I have never once said 8's wont play low, said system wont play low, etc etc. All I have done is compared smaller drivers with high Fs to larger ones with lower Fs. But here you are trying to portray what Ive said as "omg 8's cant play low and that system sucks!!!11oneone11!!". Whatever. Maybe some people will buy your BS, but anyone who understands the subject we're discussing here will see Im right, and you are just spinning your wheels trying to save face.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

youre pretty cool. will you be my mentor?

Ah, I see your posts have stopped trying to show me up with false facts and flawed parallels, and have now simply boiled down to one-line attempts at badgering me. I suspect you were trying to annoy me with that post. But quite the contrary is true, Im very amused. Its funny seeing someone's arguement fall apart and watch them still cling to the only thing they have left, self-pride... and sarcasm.

 

[negativezeroz 5,000+ posts]

I had (3) GTO804's tuned to 30Hz. Did not play anywhere near as low as my single W10GTi tuned to 28Hz.

Fact of the matter is, all the 8's I've dealt with *can* play low notes but just bottom out VERY quickly. Sure they might play like 20Hz at like 80dB but yeah.

 

[LeofromtheH 10+ year member]

lol

 

[ibanender 10+ year member]

I was linked here to look things over and offer some advice. I didnt read every thread but I did peruse it some here and there. It looks like Audioholic is backtracking a bit after Hoss pointed out that 8's can, and do, in fact play low, clean, and well.

So, you say the Fs of the sub has a relation to how well it will play low? Well there ARE 8's on the market with an Fs in the area of 32 hz, and the RE8 with an Fs of 28 hz. So, rolling with that concept, it IS possible for an 8 to play that low, clean, with a fair amount of SPL and not below the F3 point.

So you wanna play with the idea of moving mass has something to do with how low it plays? Well, that is also irrelavent. How well it plays low (in frequency, clarity, and volume) has everything to do with cone strength and motor strength. If the cone bends or warps, clarity will be reduced, which also gives the perception of it not playing low well because it sounds weak or distorted. If the motor is not strong enough to move the mass through full stroke, the sound will be sloppy, giving the perception of not playing well.

Now, I'm gonna add an element to think about here.... Transmission lines. How does a 5.25" speaker with an Fs of 54 hz and 3 mm of excursion play 30 hz both clean, and linear up through 180 hz? Here's a hint, it has nothing to do with the speaker!

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

I had (3) GTO804's tuned to 30Hz. Did not play anywhere near as low as my single W10GTi tuned to 28Hz.
Fact of the matter is, all the 8's I've dealt with *can* play low notes but just bottom out VERY quickly. Sure they might play like 20Hz at like 80dB but yeah.

You need to try a set of DD 1008a's It will change your opinion of 8's forever....RE 8's are nice..but nothing compared to DD's...yeah I play with different subs not just DD's....Here is a pic of a single RE 8 behind the rear seat of my 2006 Tacoma Sport....

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

DD's 8's aint no joke but i've yet to hear a DD sub that sounded anywhere near as good as my Mags.

You need to sit in my CRX ....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif It has changed lots of peoples opinions about good subs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif And I don't even have the big system in it yet....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

hoss is right //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
and whoever says 8s cant play low needs to talk to Mr. Loyd

Good 8's can play plenty low...just not quite as low as larger subs...//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Louisiana_CRX 5,000+ posts]

Any chance you know any songs that have this ultra-low frequency sound?

It was on a Bass Cd smeone had recorded for me a couple of years ago...I'm not sure of the song...I use to play with it in my car...and oneday it disappeared...I'd guess it was Bass Mechaniks or something...I'm not sure though....I wish I could find it again...lol

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I was linked here to look things over and offer some advice. I didnt read every thread but I did peruse it some here and there. It looks like Audioholic is backtracking a bit after Hoss pointed out that 8's can, and do, in fact play low, clean, and well.
So, you say the Fs of the sub has a relation to how well it will play low? Well there ARE 8's on the market with an Fs in the area of 32 hz, and the RE8 with an Fs of 28 hz. So, rolling with that concept, it IS possible for an 8 to play that low, clean, with a fair amount of SPL and not below the F3 point.

So you wanna play with the idea of moving mass has something to do with how low it plays? Well, that is also irrelavent. How well it plays low (in frequency, clarity, and volume) has everything to do with cone strength and motor strength. If the cone bends or warps, clarity will be reduced, which also gives the perception of it not playing low well because it sounds weak or distorted. If the motor is not strong enough to move the mass through full stroke, the sound will be sloppy, giving the perception of not playing well.

Now, I'm gonna add an element to think about here.... Transmission lines. How does a 5.25" speaker with an Fs of 54 hz and 3 mm of excursion play 30 hz both clean, and linear up through 180 hz? Here's a hint, it has nothing to do with the speaker!

How am I backtracking one bit? Let me point out wht I first typed:

"The -3 dB frequency (F3) of an enclosure is proportional to Fs. Fs of a speaker is proportional to its cone size. 8's just wont have the same low end as a comparable larger sub."

Is the -3db point not related to Fs? Yes, it is. Does Fs for a given sub go down as cone size goes up? Yes, it does. That was my point originally, and that's been my point all along.

Im well aware of the Fs of RE8's and the like. I also know their 10 and 12" versions have a lower Fs. Again, been my point since post #1 here.

No, I dont wanna play that moving mass has something to do with how low it plays. Im talking about Fs as its related to cone size. When have I mentioned moving mass? Ive read Dan's tech papers on inductance versus moving mass, so if Ive given you the impression I think its about the moving mass, Ive given you the wrong impression. I know better.

And on your final element to add, let me put it in perspective.... wouldn't a 6.5" version of that same speaker have played lower than 30hz, given the same enclosure design? Again, people in this thread are trying to put words in my mouth, words saying 8's cant play low, etc etc. I have never said that, Im simply comparing sub sizes. Larger version will play deeper (all other factors the same), are you saying that's not true? It is true. And if so, the statement that cone size has "nothing" to do with how low it plays is simply not true.

Hopefully this clears things up.

 

[davidfre21 5,000+ posts]

8s rock //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

You need to sit in my CRX ....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif It has changed lots of peoples opinions about good subs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif And I don't even have the big system in it yet....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I was refering to SQ good.

And I think 2 Mag 15's is plenty loud. Last night I was told to turn it down because the significant other was having trouble breathing.

Danity Kane may be a crappy group buy at least Diddy did the beats right. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[kballa422 10+ year member]

How am I backtracking one bit? Let me point out wht I first typed:
"The -3 dB frequency (F3) of an enclosure is proportional to Fs. Fs of a speaker is proportional to its cone size. 8's just wont have the same low end as a comparable larger sub."

Is the -3db point not related to Fs? Yes, it is. Does Fs for a given sub go down as cone size goes up? Yes, it does. That was my point originally, and that's been my point all along.

Im well aware of the Fs of RE8's and the like. I also know their 10 and 12" versions have a lower Fs. Again, been my point since post #1 here.

No, I dont wanna play that moving mass has something to do with how low it plays. Im talking about Fs as its related to cone size. When have I mentioned moving mass? Ive read Dan's tech papers on inductance versus moving mass, so if Ive given you the impression I think its about the moving mass, Ive given you the wrong impression. I know better.

And on your final element to add, let me put it in perspective.... wouldn't a 6.5" version of that same speaker have played lower than 30hz, given the same enclosure design? Again, people in this thread are trying to put words in my mouth, words saying 8's cant play low, etc etc. I have never said that, Im simply comparing sub sizes. Larger version will play deeper (all other factors the same), are you saying that's not true? It is true. And if so, the statement that cone size has "nothing" to do with how low it plays is simply not true.

Hopefully this clears things up.

Sounds perfectly clear to me.

 

[kballa422 10+ year member]

I was refering to SQ good.
And I think 2 Mag 15's is plenty loud. Last night I was told to turn it down because the significant other was having trouble breathing.

Danity Kane may be a crappy group buy at least Diddy did the beats right. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

I can't wait to get my Mag 15's in //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif