aq vs. sundown jacobs test

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

I really don't want to piss anyone off here, but since I post here alot I have to say this....
I DO believe in comparing these products. As long as nothing FALSE is stated then there is NO problem with doing this.

Comparing these products helps to drive YOU GUYS to making better products and marketing them correctly. All business shit aside I am looking out for these guys here and I too use this stuff and I don't see any problems with doing comparisons. It's a good thing.

DJ, I think your amps are great, you do a great job, and at least you don't overrate your amps like some companies do, misleading people, that's shady.... You are doing great. But I think maybe the attitude towards doing comparisons needs to change. Just my $0.02 whether you want it or not. It's not a "pissing contest", it's a real world testing product comparison test. Hmmm... Consumer reports comes to mind.... You think they shouldn't exist? Maybe if they are taking bribes or something, but assuming the tests are accurate, how could they be a "bad thing" for the consumers? I don't think so.

Yes Jacob underrates his amps, yes, they cost more, yes he puts alot of money, time, thought, consideration into them, and a 2 year warranty that has an outstanding reputation. So I say yes, for those who can afford it, go for the Sundown. Not saying your AQ amps are any less of a value, quite the opposite, they are a GREAT value. I can tell you this, from doing repairs on these Zenon-design-based amps, which that is most of the popular amps out there today in the 2000-10,000 watt catagories, Jacob's amps are the best version of them hands down. And I'll stick to that. Show me a better one... can't because there isn't. He really puts some effort and money into those amps, hence the reason they are higher priced and have a longer warranty.

A lot of people assume I am so biased to Sundown, but it's just not true. His amps really are built better, just look at the pics of the insides, if you have ANY idea what you are looking at you can see the differences, and Sundown's customer service is "off the hook". I just tell it like is and call 'em as I see 'em..... That's how I roll, and I plan on staying that way....

if SD amps were "that" good then you wouldn't have a job repairing them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

IMO you come off like an infomercial for Sundown to the point that you turn some people away from SD. Personally I wouldn't want you as a spokesperson. Stick to repairing amps and let Jacob promote his company/products.

If that extra 400+ watts will fit your application better then shell out the extra $$$ and get the Sundown, otherwise the AQ is hard to beat at it's price point.

Comparisons by non biased 3rd partys that don't have a hidden agenda would be great, but those are far and few between in the world of car audio...

 

[Thewes 10+ year member]

I make it a practice not to respond to these kinds of post. I don't believe in comparisons between products, nothing is really gained. I believe our products have to speak for themselves but there has been a direct comparison to our products by Jacob. In this instance I feel I need to. I mean no disrespect to anyone or any company.
As Jacob has stated the Sundown amp has more parts in the output section and by his tests does more power which I would agree with. He also seems to agree that the AQ3500D is very well built and does it's rated power.

With that being said it does it's RATED POWER and has proven itself to be a VERY reliable amp as evidenced by endusers and return rate.

I don't like to bring pricing up but it has already been talked about in this thread so I don't feel like I am violating any forum rules.

The listed price on the Sundown sales site is $1075. AQ listed sales price is $699 a differance of $376. The extra $376 gets you according to Jacob around 500 more watts which on the face of it sounds good. Or you could buy 2-AQ2200D's and get 4400 watts for $287 less then the cost of one SD3500.

I don't believe in building amps over 3500 watts, everyone in this business knows that the price per watt goes up as you increase the amps output and reliability goes down. A look at the cost per watt figures bears this out. Do the math, according to Jacob the SD3500 does 3900 watts for $1075, The AQ 3500 does 3500 watts for $699.

It is always cheaper to increase power by adding lower powered amps then by jumping to a more powerful amp. You can but 3 AQ3500D's (10,200 watts) for less then what 2-SD3500's cost.(7800watts)

There are several methods to market products; you can OVERRATE an amp and hope someone is stupid enough to buy it, you can OFFER a cheaply made product and hope the warranty returns don't kill you, you can UNDERRATE a product but you have to sell it for more because it cost more to build if you build it right or you can give it the proper rating and sell it at a resonable price.

In conclusion I believe both Jacob and my self offer the best of products and customer service. Between the two of us you can't go wrong either way.

Yeah your mad

 

[EuphoricBass247 10+ year member]

nice post.GTFO with that shit^

 

[PIITB Wut Wut 10+ year member]

You should give Alan Dante lessons on how to respond to constructive criticism. Well done Dj! You and Jacob represent your brands very well! Other company reps should take note.

bahahahahaha the lulz as i am reading up

 

[2lo2flo 10+ year member]

^^

Sad to say, but its true

 

[LaserRed38 10+ year member]

Well, this thread doesn't really apply to me because AQ and SD aren't really in my market. But I just wanted to comment on the Consumer Reports thing. That's a load of crap. They are SO biased, and so are their surveys, at least when it comes to comparing cars. Granted, I will give you that over the past 20-30 years the domestics just weren't making cars as well as the imports. Then the imports started making cars over here, and we started exporting our production, but for the most part things stayed the same.

Lately though, things have been changing. It is nice to see the Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion rated pretty highly compared to the other offerings in the segment. BUT, CR will NEVER EVER let a domestic car be on top again. Even when they state in their write-up something like "Domestic Car A does everything as well as or better than Import Car B", the import is still rated better. Why? Well, it's either bias or bribes. Take your pick.

On two occasions I remember CR effing up with their ratings. I don't have the links to back myself up, but maybe other people remember. I believe it was the Suzuki Gran Vitara and Chevy Tracker. They berated the Tracker and called it a pos, while they raved about the Suzuki being a great value coming from the Japanese company. Uhh...they're the SAME vehicle. Same thing happened with the reliability ratings of the Mazda Tribute and Ford Escape. Tribute was expected to be excellent just because it was a Mazda, but they are the same car underneath. Also, whenever a new model from Toyota or Honda is released they will print "no reliability data available, but expected to be excellent", and when a new domestic is released "no data available, too new to tell". Tell that to new Tunda owners, or the recent Hondas with faulty airbags. Not one manufacturer is immune to problems, and look at GM and Toyota, the bigger you get, the more problems you have.

Yeah. I'm mad. CR sucks!

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

if SD amps were "that" good then you wouldn't have a job repairing them //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
IMO you come off like an infomercial for Sundown to the point that you turn some people away from SD. Personally I wouldn't want you as a spokesperson. Stick to repairing amps and let Jacob promote his company/products.

If that extra 400+ watts will fit your application better then shell out the extra $$$ and get the Sundown, otherwise the AQ is hard to beat at it's price point.

Comparisons by non biased 3rd partys that don't have a hidden agenda would be great, but those are far and few between in the world of car audio...

LOL at this. Just telling it like it is bro. Stuff I know about that "you" don't, because I do this everyday. I could care less if you guys buy Sundown or AQ, if either one of them made some trash and was trying to push it on you guys I would come here and spell it out, believe me.

What's so funny about this, is that I am like the only guy who has the balls to come on here and tell you guys what's in which amp. I'm actually "on your side" dude....

I guess the concept of being "fair" even given the fact that Jacob did the tests (like he is gonna lie about it, LOL do you know Jacob? I do, he's honest) you just can't accept it as "unbiased". I understand that, and I understand why people consider me biased just because of who I do work for etc, but really that's just childish and I am not biased at all. Those who actually know me (you DOA guys don't yet, but you will, your buddies have been asking me to do repairs for your team at a bargain in trade for sponsorship...) know I am not biased.

I just want to make it clear that other than DJ's amps using spring clips (yuck, prone to vibration damage, big time..., everyone already KNOWS this but they do it anyway (except Jacob //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif ) they are great and are a great value. I simply had a problem with his attitude about someone DARING to compare his products to theirs... LOL... now to me that seems childish. I would say compare all you want. But that's ME.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

i've spent a good deal of money on tons of products.. DJ makes good stuff for the money, but jacob also has some very nice extremely reliable amps.. i had one gripe with my 100.4d, and in the proper install its irrelevant.. i tested a 1200 and 2200 and they do rated power.. i found the zenon board had the slight edge, but the AQ is a steal for the price.. leaps ahead of amps in its class..

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

I'd like to see more comparisons done that were more than testing power.

 

[Macklessdaddy 10+ year member]

Well, this thread doesn't really apply to me because AQ and SD aren't really in my market. But I just wanted to comment on the Consumer Reports thing. That's a load of crap. They are SO biased, and so are their surveys, at least when it comes to comparing cars. Granted, I will give you that over the past 20-30 years the domestics just weren't making cars as well as the imports. Then the imports started making cars over here, and we started exporting our production, but for the most part things stayed the same.
Lately though, things have been changing. It is nice to see the Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion rated pretty highly compared to the other offerings in the segment. BUT, CR will NEVER EVER let a domestic car be on top again. Even when they state in their write-up something like "Domestic Car A does everything as well as or better than Import Car B", the import is still rated better. Why? Well, it's either bias or bribes. Take your pick.

On two occasions I remember CR effing up with their ratings. I don't have the links to back myself up, but maybe other people remember. I believe it was the Suzuki Gran Vitara and Chevy Tracker. They berated the Tracker and called it a pos, while they raved about the Suzuki being a great value coming from the Japanese company. Uhh...they're the SAME vehicle. Same thing happened with the reliability ratings of the Mazda Tribute and Ford Escape. Tribute was expected to be excellent just because it was a Mazda, but they are the same car underneath. Also, whenever a new model from Toyota or Honda is released they will print "no reliability data available, but expected to be excellent", and when a new domestic is released "no data available, too new to tell". Tell that to new Tunda owners, or the recent Hondas with faulty airbags. Not one manufacturer is immune to problems, and look at GM and Toyota, the bigger you get, the more problems you have.

Yeah. I'm mad. CR sucks!

Now from what I have seen/observed CS might rate the import higher than the better performing domestic is because of reliability which I think probably adds a lot to the overall ranking.

 

[blackman 10+ year member]

um.... its probably not mma but boxing. considering that you generally dont have weighted gloves in mma just a little fyi. Also I have not had either amps. i love the look and versatility of both. I myself like the look of the SD amps. they are clean and modest. (not to say that the aq isn't.) but my one question is where are the SD amps made? the one thing i like is that most " main stream " brands you can't get to talk to anyone who knows anything. I love that i can get on here and talk to either of the main guys from both companys.

MMA in ufc gloves are 4oz //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif making them weighted right? Some promotions allow 2-4 oz and others have a 5 oz glove,

 

[jstutzman 10+ year member]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dB-r

I really don't want to piss anyone off here, but since I post here alot I have to say this....

I DO believe in comparing these products. As long as nothing FALSE is stated then there is NO problem with doing this.

Comparing these products helps to drive YOU GUYS to making better products and marketing them correctly. All business shit aside I am looking out for these guys here and I too use this stuff and I don't see any problems with doing comparisons. It's a good thing.

DJ, I think your amps are great, you do a great job, and at least you don't overrate your amps like some companies do, misleading people, that's shady.... You are doing great. But I think maybe the attitude towards doing comparisons needs to change. Just my $0.02 whether you want it or not. It's not a "pissing contest", it's a real world testing product comparison test. Hmmm... Consumer reports comes to mind.... You think they shouldn't exist? Maybe if they are taking bribes or something, but assuming the tests are accurate, how could they be a "bad thing" for the consumers? I don't think so.

Yes Jacob underrates his amps, yes, they cost more, yes he puts alot of money, time, thought, consideration into them, and a 2 year warranty that has an outstanding reputation. So I say yes, for those who can afford it, go for the Sundown. Not saying your AQ amps are any less of a value, quite the opposite, they are a GREAT value. I can tell you this, from doing repairs on these Zenon-design-based amps, which that is most of the popular amps out there today in the 2000-10,000 watt catagories, Jacob's amps are the best version of them hands down. And I'll stick to that. Show me a better one... can't because there isn't. He really puts some effort and money into those amps, hence the reason they are higher priced and have a longer warranty.

A lot of people assume I am so biased to Sundown, but it's just not true. His amps really are built better, just look at the pics of the insides, if you have ANY idea what you are looking at you can see the differences, and Sundown's customer service is "off the hook". I just tell it like is and call 'em as I see 'em..... That's how I roll, and I plan on staying that way....

end quote:

Guys, why are so many people jumping on this guy. I dont know him at all but i keep reading his post over and over and personally i dont see anything wrong at all that he said. Just stated that he likes the comparison, both make good amps, sundowns are better, but you pay for them. Seems like it sums it up nicely. DB, whoever you are, thank for passing on your knowledge of the multiple amps you work on so guys like me that dont see them at that level can have some idea what im buying.

 

[TurdFergueson2 5,000+ posts]

THIS ^^^^
You guys that are telling me basically that I need to shut up are some nuthuggers.... I know who you are.

People want to see these tests. I agree. If there were tests like this for every one of these amps on the market, there would be no need for people to "weed" through marketing BS. You would know exactly what you were gonna get, no suprizes... I can't even fathom why someone would say you shouldn't compare products. Someone who thinks I shouldn't have even posted in here feel like commenting on this? Maybe your comments can make me understand WHY you shouldn't compare this stuff? Please do tell....

DB-R......... Please understand that not everyone competes. You appear to mostly think from a competitor standpoint. Do you take Jacobs testing as fact? If you do, the AQ amp does rated. Jacob's amp does more than rated at a higher price. Now to the average Joe who compared that AQ amp to say......a Kicker zx2500.1. A new and hopefully not refurbed one is 750 on Ebay. Some offer a warranty, but would you really trust it through eBay? Without caring about ohm loads the average Joe will see 1000 watts more for less money. So even though AQ and Sundown may forever be compared, sometimes you must think like the "average" consumer.

 

[dB-r 10+ year member]

Guys, why are so many people jumping on this guy. I dont know him at all but i keep reading his post over and over and personally i dont see anything wrong at all that he said. Just stated that he likes the comparison, both make good amps, sundowns are better, but you pay for them. Seems like it sums it up nicely. DB, whoever you are, thank for passing on your knowledge of the multiple amps you work on so guys like me that dont see them at that level can have some idea what im buying.

I will PM you.

 

[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

LOL at this. Just telling it like it is bro. Stuff I know about that "you" don't, because I do this everyday. I could care less if you guys buy Sundown or AQ, if either one of them made some trash and was trying to push it on you guys I would come here and spell it out, believe me.
What's so funny about this, is that I am like the only guy who has the balls to come on here and tell you guys what's in which amp. I'm actually "on your side" dude....

I guess the concept of being "fair" even given the fact that Jacob did the tests (like he is gonna lie about it, LOL do you know Jacob? I do, he's honest) you just can't accept it as "unbiased". I understand that, and I understand why people consider me biased just because of who I do work for etc, but really that's just childish and I am not biased at all. Those who actually know me (you DOA guys don't yet, but you will, your buddies have been asking me to do repairs for your team at a bargain in trade for sponsorship...) know I am not biased.

I just want to make it clear that other than DJ's amps using spring clips (yuck, prone to vibration damage, big time..., everyone already KNOWS this but they do it anyway (except Jacob //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif ) they are great and are a great value. I simply had a problem with his attitude about someone DARING to compare his products to theirs... LOL... now to me that seems childish. I would say compare all you want. But that's ME.

Not everyone on the forum is an amplifier repair technician, but most of them are fairly adept at smelling douchebagary from a mile away. And you, sir, are reeking. If you were doing anything other than whoring Sundown, you might realize that DJ likely has some pretty valid reservations about another manufacturer "comparing" his product that very well could have less to do with Jacob's credibility and more to do with things like the extremely limited scope of the "comparison" in question and the implications of the described differences. DJ also brought up some very valid points in his post.

But let's face it.....in the end, we're still comparing amps from two rebadgers (not manufacturers). Ordering amps essentially like Chinese take out. There's nothing special enough under the hood of either that anybody with enough $$ to meet minimum order requirements couldn't duplicate. Heck, all it would take is someone to go Wal-mart on their ***** and all hell would break loose. By that I mean.....order some amps from the menu and sell them at just enough to cover your costs until the market competition is sufficiently driven out that you can control the market. Hmmmm.....maybe I just gave myself a new business enterprise to investigate //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

It's also funny that Sundown's are of such good quality that you don't seem to have a problem maintaining a constant supply of refurbs..... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif