Anyone know who they're voting for in 2008?

[the brick 10+ year member]

ive got a few write in votes

 

[WhoSayWho? 5,000+ posts]

ive got a few write in votes

Savage is a complete idiot

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

fair tax ftmfw //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Well, since you hopped on board. I will break down the pitfalls of the fair tax.

a) The fair tax assume people are (1) rational and (2) do what's in their economic best interest. In reality they do not. Why would mid-westeners vote Republican when Democratic policies lean more heavily in their economic favor.

(b) The fair tax requires people to spend money at exponential rate. They have to spend money in order for the government to sustain itself. During times of depression, job loss, terrorism, scarcity of resources people spend less money regardless of income, thus depriving the government of money.

© The tax breaks and other subsidies towards the poor only work if the people save the rest of their money. When money is disbursed in lump sums to the poor they often blow it. Think about how many people hit the lotto and go bankrupt. If they were smart enough to manage the winnings from the lotto, they probably won't not play it. A $1000 tax break assumes the poor only spend $4,347.82 on necessary items. I seriously doubt that.

(d) Yes it would encourage investment as RRR would be lower due to less taxation. However, is that "fair" what about people not from this country, they would not be taxed at all, gain a great ROI, and not contribute a **** thing because they are not buying American goods.

(e) you are assuming america is a goods producing economy. It is a service based economy. Under your logic, if I can outsource these services elsewhere because of lower taxation. This would increase our contries use of outsourcing to lower costs. The rest of the world already has depressed wages, why do you want to give them another advantage.

(f) Low income pay no tax whatsoever? I doubt it. The flat tax does provide a great way to capture taxes paid by tax cheats such as drug dealers. They may can avoid the income tax, but it will be hard to dodge the tax on the 23" rims. The "prebate" as its often called is based on food/necesseities. Not all items

(g) Why would you want too create a system which rewards investment but at the same time requiring those same folks to blow every dime they have. It seems hyprocritical to work, unless you are rich or an investor.

(h) Who do you think spends more money in a particular year, the richest man in the world of Joe CEO who makes a tenth. Joe CEO. Bill Gates already paid for his house/car/boat etc. It would make me think twice about upgrading since I have the huge tax burden. Why upgrade at all when I can repair. But wait, the economy requires that I buy buy buy. Bill Gates doesn't spend what the average millionaire spends. I just don't believe it.

(i) Tit for tat. Currently, if I pay you to mow my yard in exchange for me doing your taxes, then we are supposed to record this transaction on our taxes as income. However, under this system, barter could be used to circumvent taxation. If I trade items instead of selling them I can avoid taxation.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Should have went with the Roth IRA:crap:

The Roth IRA has an upper limit on income... so if you make over X amount you can't contribute to one...

Also if you cash out any IRA early you get slammed with taxes... it's best to wait till retirement.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

why you have to pay taxes after you make it..
What do you think after you use up resources getting yourself ahead, that you shouldn't have to gove anything back? You already got yours, so fuk everyone else?

You make a common mistake here many liberals make... Getting rich isn't about stealing from others. While it can go that way MANY people CREATE wealth. New money, that wasn't ripped from a poor man's hands. Bill Gates is a good example, he CREATED wealth...

Another big misconception is that rich people don't pay taxes, but that has already been covered.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

You make a common mistake here many liberals make... Getting rich isn't about stealing from others. While it can go that way MANY people CREATE wealth. New money, that wasn't ripped from a poor man's hands. Bill Gates is a good example, he CREATED wealth...
Another big misconception is that rich people don't pay taxes, but that has already been covered.

He created wealth by acquiring the resources of others.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

He created wealth by acquiring the resources of others.

No... there is NEW wealth there... not owned by others, because of his actions... I'm not talking about the money in his bank account, I'm talking about the company and industry that was spawned around the windows OS. That is wealth CREATION.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

So he printed money?

Otherwise, he traded a product (his resources) in exchange for monies (collective society whose government uses his product)

There are only two ways to create money.

1) print it

2) lend it and the interest is "new money"

What he did is transfer of an asset from one group to another. I fail to see what he "created".

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

So he printed money?
Otherwise, he traded a product (his resources) in exchange for monies (collective society whose government uses his product)

There are only two ways to create money.

1) print it

2) lend it and the interest is "new money"

What he did is transfer of an asset from one group to another. I fail to see what he "created".

I really hope you aren't going to be a future financier without understanding this....

The money supply can be increased several other ways as well...

1) Print more (this is covered)

2) Bank lending... and you are positively WRONG.. it's not the interest that is new money, it's the money itself that is lent... For every $1 the bank holds in checking account it only needs to keep about $.11 in reserves to cover cash withdrawls. It can then LEND the other $.89 out to another person.

It's important to note that this $.89 lent does NOT belong to the person who deposited the dollar, it belongs to the bank because you gave $1 in cash and bought $1 in checking account balance. Also while the bank holds that dollar it is NOT money, but that is asside from the point. So when The person deposits the dollar, and .89 is lent out there is now 1.89 in circulation, so the .89 is created... and actually in practice more than that .89 is created because on average about half of that lent money will find itself back into checking accounts, which is .44cents of which .40 can be lent out again... etc etc etc...

In any case the CREATION of wealth means there must be more money to buy the new products, which is regulated by the Federal Reserve, who can CREATE money in several ways themselves, other than printing it...

3) The velocity of money can also increase... but I don't feel like explaining it..

Besides this is talking about MONEY.... and MONEY does not equal wealth... so it was a mute point to tell you that you are wrong...

Think about it, if wealth cannot be created we'd all be dead, because we couldn't support more than the cavemen who first became "Humans"

Every time we find a new way to farm, a new sector of business with which to employ people (electronics, computers) it CREATES wealth...

You better just be starting college or you are going to be one pathetic financier... If you are just started pay attention in your Finance/Economics classes

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Don't forget to also see how Canada's income tax structure works. Something has to pay for that quote un quote 'free medical'. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/blackeye.gif.66a1670f5aaf7f406e783a63e3387dc5.gif

It's called SOCIAL MEDICINE. Not FREE. No one ever said it was free. It's a good program if done right. I fail to see what is bad about social medicine. The only thing that stands to get hurt by this is the GOUGING healthcare industry. They've been gouging us forever and yet everyone laughs at the idea of EVERYONE having health coverage or being taken care of. The pharmaceutical companies lobby Washington and get to keep the price of medicine while programs to help poor people get their medication are being slashed by the right wing. If no one sees a problem with this then you are no better than they are.

My god. What is wrong with you and everyone else?? Oh and the guy who was talking about "fair tax" is completely full of shit. Those people will never bring their capital gains back into the states and stimulate our economy. All they care about is getting richer while the middle class picks up the tabs for their tax breaks. Not to mention keeping the poor right where they are. I know nothing is fair in life so why should the rich get all the breaks??

 

[marleyskater420 5,000+ posts]

Definately not anyone Bush supports.

Gull-no way I'm supporting some crooked ex-mayor.

Yea...

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

It's called SOCIAL MEDICINE. Not FREE. No one ever said it was free. It's a good program if done right. I fail to see what is bad about social medicine. The only thing that stands to get hurt by this is the GOUGING healthcare industry. They've been gouging us forever and yet everyone laughs at the idea of EVERYONE having health coverage or being taken care of. The pharmaceutical companies lobby Washington and get to keep the price of medicine while programs to help poor people get their medication are being slashed by the right wing. If no one sees a problem with this then you are no better than they are.
My god. What is wrong with you and everyone else?? Oh and the guy who was talking about "fair tax" is completely full of shit. Those people will never bring their capital gains back into the states and stimulate our economy. All they care about is getting richer while the middle class picks up the tabs for their tax breaks. Not to mention keeping the poor right where they are. I know nothing is fair in life so why should the rich get all the breaks??

The rich don't "get all the breaks", most of the rich worked hard and made all the breaks... but you'd be surprised how the life of rich people really is... most of them have the same problems poor people have,just on a bigger scale... mostly due to human nature but in any case...

ohh and tax cuts for the rich is one of my favorite topics... to understand why the dems are full of horseshit when they talk about tax cuts for the rich you have to consider the reason for tax cuts and who pays taxes...

A) Why have tax cuts - well you can have them just for the priciple of it, but most tax cuts, including Bush's tax cuts, are for stimulating the economy. Now how exactly would cutting taxes for the poorest make any difference, considering they DON'T PAY ANY TAXES... The idea is you give the top 10% an X% cut in taxes they'll run out and spend it... which the DO... it doesn't mean they just horde it... this spending boosts the economy and the purpose is served...

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

Definately not anyone Bush supports.
Gull-no way I'm supporting some crooked ex-mayor.

Yea...

Well both hillary and obama where ex-crooked folks in one dealing or another.... but I'm not a huge fan of Bush either.... or gulliani for that matter.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

You make a common mistake here many liberals make... Getting rich isn't about stealing from others. While it can go that way MANY people CREATE wealth. New money, that wasn't ripped from a poor man's hands. Bill Gates is a good example, he CREATED wealth...
Another big misconception is that rich people don't pay taxes, but that has already been covered.

You weren't following the conversation i was having with gymway very well.

The statements you made have nothing to do with what i said in response to this

Sucks when you start a buisness from scratch, living out of the back of a VW, going to school, and using the great resources of this country to educate yourself and become successful. 30 years later you have a multi-million dollar company employing possibly thousands of people, and you pay 30%+ of everything you make to the feds.

I was not commenting on the creation of wealth. I was commenting on his using public resources to achieve success, then not wanting to pay taxes.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

BSME

BS for sure.