Anyone know who they're voting for in 2008?

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Faulkton I know you are probably being tongue-in-cheek with your arrogance but its OBNOXIOUS AS HELL. I find myself agreeing with you more often than not, but you are trying SO HARD to depict yourself as a well-rounded intellectual that you just come off as insecure. For someone who has dedicated his life to the study of society, you'd think you would have developed more palletable ways to get your ideas into a receptive mind. Instead it seems that you have no idea how to talk to people rationally and rely solely on rhetoric and generalizations of your opponent and their background.
That is of course unless you just like to stir the pot in order to be met with resistence (extreme opposites always attract eachother), which I suspect you will claim (regardless of whether that's actually the case) to capture that classic Internet born sentiment for anything one wants an excuse for: "I didn't even care to begin with.".

Anyways, had to be said.

The first mistake people make is taking anything i post as serious. Perhaps the second is the failure to realize that i enjoy acting pompous and pretentious for the sake of irritation.

Maybe studying society it just a method of better learning how to upset its function. The social distance afforded on the internet is a perfect vehicle for tongue-in-cheek points and personal attacks.

I figure if Colbert can do it, why cant i?

My intent has nothing to do with imparting knowledge in receptive minds, and you fail for even thinking that. My intent is solely personal entertainment, and as a side effect the entertainment of others.

You don't have to agree with, or like, something in order to find it entertaining.

 

[PollyCranopolis 10+ year member]

I am pro fair tax as well. Although it is not really "fair" to those who:
a) are not savers

b) not not have the capacity to save (as seen before, many forum members use withholding as a way to save)

c)against those who spend a predominate amount of money just to live.

d) sales taxes do not do well in recessions, as people spend less money.

Well, the idea that lower income people would pay a larger percentage of their income to the federal government because they would spend a larger percentage of their income on food, closing, housing and so on.

But that's simply not the case. In the Fair Tax plan, there is a fixed rebate that goes back to each citizen each year. This rebate might be equal to $500 or $1,000 per citizen, and it would nullify the sales tax on low income people, meaning that they would end up paying absolutely zero tax. So this is the best tax plan of all for low-income people, since they would end up paying no tax whatsoever.

It's reallya tax on consumers, meaning the more you buy and the more you consume, the more tax you pay. And yet, since every individual would get a tax rebate that would cover the normal expenditures for an average person, you only end up paying tax if you wish to consume more than the poverty level of consumption. For example, if you wish to buy a more expensie car, or a bigger house, or five pairs of shoes instead of one, or expensive food items instead of more affordable food items, then you are going to be contributing tax dollars to the federal government

And of course, wealthy people tend to spend a lot more money than lower-income people, meaning that it is the wealthy people who will be spending more money and paying more taxes to the federal government, just as it should be in a fair and just society. If you wish to live in a very large home, or drive a nice car, or wear a $1,000 suit, or carry a $600 purse, that is your free choice, and if you choose to live in luxury, you will be funding public projects that ultimately benefit low-income people who don't operate at that high level of conumption.

Also, by switching to a Fair Tax system, we eliminate the taxes on investment in the U.S. This would bring in an avalanch of wealth to our shores, because suddenly the income is no longer taxed on that money, so investors and ultra-wealthy individuals would bring all of their billions of dollars from offshore accounts back into the U.S. to seek out new investment opportunities. In a sense, it would take all of these billions of dollars that are outside the control of the IRS, and bring them back into the system where they can be put to good use helping to create more jobs, better technology and more investment opportunities right here in America. The economy would benefit strongly from such a move.

Regarding being a good saver...I consider that to be the responsibilty of the individual.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

I would say to a higher degree depending on the level in which people are concerned with economics. Many of my colleagues shoot for conception in the month of March, hoping for December children so they may take the highest advantage of the tax breaks.
But many of the items we give tax breaks for such as children, marriage, etc would naturally occur anyway. I don't know of a anyone who got married simply for the tax break.

By what mechanism, I meant as in federal taxes as currently in place, national flat income tax, national sales tax. Each provides advantages and disadvantages to different groups. I was wondering what groups you would like to advantage and why.

 

I am for economic redistribution only because I feel that they support the top. Even though I am an elitest and pro-rich, I still see that a pyramid needs a base to support it, and that I need buyers for the products I sell. If I tax them to death, I will ultimately lose as there will be no one to buy my products.

Well I'm for advantaging whatever group i am currently a member of //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I really don't have enough of a background in econ to have any sort of discussion with you about the advantages or disadvantages different approaches have in respect to varying groups.

I am certainly not an advocate for the proletariat revolution, but i also don't advocate a return to the social circumstances found in the industrial revolution.

There has to be a happy medium between the alienation Marx speaks of and the ineffectual disasters found in the modern attempts at communism.

 

[Rich B 5,000+ posts]

d) sales taxes do not do well in recessions, as people spend less money.

Not to mention that a national sales tax would encourage inflation because the revenues increase as prices do.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Well, the idea that lower income people would pay a larger percentage of their income to the federal government because they would spend a larger percentage of their income on food, closing, housing and so on.But that's simply not the case. In the Fair Tax plan, there is a fixed rebate that goes back to each citizen each year. This rebate might be equal to $500 or $1,000 per citizen, and it would nullify the sales tax on low income people, meaning that they would end up paying absolutely zero tax. So this is the best tax plan of all for low-income people, since they would end up paying no tax whatsoever.

It's reallya tax on consumers, meaning the more you buy and the more you consume, the more tax you pay. And yet, since every individual would get a tax rebate that would cover the normal expenditures for an average person, you only end up paying tax if you wish to consume more than the poverty level of consumption. For example, if you wish to buy a more expensie car, or a bigger house, or five pairs of shoes instead of one, or expensive food items instead of more affordable food items, then you are going to be contributing tax dollars to the federal government

And of course, wealthy people tend to spend a lot more money than lower-income people, meaning that it is the wealthy people who will be spending more money and paying more taxes to the federal government, just as it should be in a fair and just society. If you wish to live in a very large home, or drive a nice car, or wear a $1,000 suit, or carry a $600 purse, that is your free choice, and if you choose to live in luxury, you will be funding public projects that ultimately benefit low-income people who don't operate at that high level of conumption.

Also, by switching to a Fair Tax system, we eliminate the taxes on investment in the U.S. This would bring in an avalanch of wealth to our shores, because suddenly the income is no longer taxed on that money, so investors and ultra-wealthy individuals would bring all of their billions of dollars from offshore accounts back into the U.S. to seek out new investment opportunities. In a sense, it would take all of these billions of dollars that are outside the control of the IRS, and bring them back into the system where they can be put to good use helping to create more jobs, better technology and more investment opportunities right here in America. The economy would benefit strongly from such a move.

Regarding being a good saver...I consider that to be the responsibilty of the individual.

iirc he is either an econ or finance major.. i bet he knows the nuances of a flat tax system. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[BoomBoomBoy 10+ year member]

sure i do; I like starting things.
If you wanted simple nominal level data you should have made a poll.

STFU, if I would have wanted your left wing drivel, I would have commanded you to post it.

Now GTFO, and go play somewhere else!

 

[elementxero 10+ year member]

The first mistake people make is taking anything i post as serious. Perhaps the second is the failure to realize that i enjoy acting pompous and pretentious for the sake of irritation.
Maybe studying society it just a method of better learning how to upset its function. The social distance afforded on the internet is a perfect vehicle for tongue-in-cheek points and personal attacks.

I figure if Colbert can do it, why cant i?

My intent has nothing to do with imparting knowledge in receptive minds, and you fail for even thinking that. My intent is solely personal entertainment, and as a side effect the entertainment of others.

You don't have to agree with, or like, something in order to find it entertaining.

Faulkton I know you are probably being tongue-in-cheek with your arrogance but its OBNOXIOUS AS HELL. I find myself agreeing with you more often than not, but you are trying SO HARD to depict yourself as a well-rounded intellectual that you just come off as insecure. For someone who has dedicated his life to the study of society, you'd think you would have developed more palletable ways to get your ideas into a receptive mind. Instead it seems that you have no idea how to talk to people rationally and rely solely on rhetoric and generalizations of your opponent and their background.
That is of course unless you just like to stir the pot in order to be met with resistence (extreme opposites always attract eachother), which I suspect you will claim (regardless of whether that's actually the case) to capture that classic Internet born sentiment for anything one wants an excuse for: "I didn't even care to begin with.".

Anyways, had to be said.

I know sweetie.

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

STFU, if I would have wanted your left wing drivel, I would have commanded you to post it.
Now GTFO, and go play somewhere else!

z0mg1!! im soooooo scurred.

i kent beleaf you threatn me!1@!

You're just mad because everything i said in that post was true.

You are either an idiot or naive for thinking a thread on politics in the lounge would have taken any other course. Don't start threads if you don't want people to post in them.

Plus you probably don't even know what nominal level data is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

I know sweetie.

don't hate me cuz you ain't me.

 

[BoomBoomBoy 10+ year member]

You are either an idiot or naive for thinking a thread on politics in the lounge would have taken any other course. Don't start threads if you don't want people to post in them.

Actually dumb****, it's more along the lines of you being mature enough not to hijack other peoples threads. Oh wait, I forget who I'm posting to. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[toolfan89 10+ year member]

i vote colbert as prez or john stewart

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

Actually dumb****, it's more along the lines of you being mature enough not to hijack other peoples threads. Oh wait, I forget who I'm posting to. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

actually dumb fuk i didn't post in this thread until long after it had been hijacked and reclaimed several times. It's strange enough you didn't seem to comment on it .. except to me... perhaps you have a hard-on for me because Ive pwned you so thoroughly and without mercy so many times.

Again, i will state it.. this time in large font.. maybe that will make it easier for you to understand...

If you start a political thread in the lounge, expecting that it will strictly remain on your narrow focus, you are an idiot or naive. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif threads evolve and enter new, yet related, domains. Perhaps you should learn to play in the interwebz and get over your aggression toward me.

 

[BoomBoomBoy 10+ year member]

You remind me of an 'ex' of mine. She never knew when to STFU either. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[faulkton 5,000+ posts]

you deserve to be right up front you pos coward... they fight for your b1tch @ss... go kill yourself so that deserving people can breath the fresh air of freedom you neglect to appreciate...

Death is not a punishment... in fact many of them have the warrior mentality where death in battle would be an honor (my best friend/marine being one of them)... I imagine that mentality is in the minority but they are volunteers. Death is an occupational hazard for the military. Every military death is truly unfortunate though, I'd give two civilians for every one soldier.

I forgive you because obviously:sarcasm > you

Odd sentiment. Most of the soldiers I served with would have it the other way around.

Sarcasm can be tasteful, what you said wasn't even close... Death is not a subject that I take lightly... my apologies...

Just read Mike's point that I was addressing. I think you will see where I am coming from.
Just because we have people that volunteer does not mean that they have no expectation that they will not be called upon to put their lives at risk unless it is truly necessary. I know you agree.

This war isn't about Saddam or Iraq... It was the "right war in the right place"... While Iraq didn't really pose a threat Iran does, more so to the Isrealis than us but Iran is much more likely to take us on than Iraq. The reason for going to Iraq is that it would put us on the border of Iran, legally (he violated a pile of UN resolutions, kicked inspectors out etc...) and with what we assumed would be a friendly population (secular government, hated Saddam etc)...
Unfortunately much of the population is either indifferent to us or doesn't like us there, so it didn't work out perfectly but I imagine we will retain bases in the area which will serve our purpose of being in Iraq...

apparently
you have a fake tomb stone in your avatar afterall.

yah... I'm a civi though... and I know plenty of silly civi's this world could do without... on the other hand I haven't met many worthless soldiers... though there are some..

My buddy who died in Iraq the other day from an IED said before he left that if was going to die young, better it be for his country than anything else. However, It doesn't justify our reason for being over there. When was the last time you heard of a soldier dying from a gun shot? We are over there getting shot at, driving over explosives, but not shooting back. This isn't a war. We are babysitting.

just a few post in the first couple pages that didn't strictly meet your insanely anal need for this thread to stay 100% on topic. I could post page after page of your indifference but i think thats enough to make my point.

Why didn't you attack anyone else?

Do you hold an emotional hatred for me? Did i really succeed quite that stunningly in getting under your skin? Sure seems like it //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I hope one day you can calm down and just accept my total dominance over you. You will be so much happier if you do.

 

[BoomBoomBoy 10+ year member]

I'm done with you, you're nothing but a trolling chimp. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif