Amp suggestions for 10" Phoenix Gold RSDC10-4


AndyWood7

Member
Sep 21, 2010
67
0
Kalamazoo, MI
Hi all,

I'm looking for suggestions for an amplifier to run a single Phoenix Gold Competition 10" sub.

RSdC10-4ohm DVC

600rms

custom sealed box

Looking to run at 2ohms on a monoblock, so close to 600-700rms should do fine. I just don't have any idea on what brand to look at. Don't have much knowledge of amp quality. I can't see spending much over $350 for a class D, but would like something much closer to $200. I'm building mostly for SQ.

Thanks in advance.

 

Shinju

CarAudio.com Veteran
10+ year member
Aug 26, 2008
4,900
26
Seattle
Quite a few options, I would look on Flee Bay for a nice 2 channel or Monoblock also use it as a price reference.

As far as brands go look for the following:

Memphis

Cadence

Mb Quart

Soundstream

Orion

Rockford Fosgate

Kicker

 

Boomsday

CarAudio.com Veteran
Apr 1, 2010
4,001
24
My House
REFURB Cadence A5+HC 600 Watt Competition Mono Block - eBay (item 290532245907 end time Feb-15-11 09:02:26 PST)
this is it, zed audio designed and built right here in america, one of the best lines cadence ever built. this the a7hc and a7000 sweet poison.

ultra clean look at the thd

Minimum THD:

and only needs a 80 amp fuse, these things have been benched in excess of 800 watts. look no further.
THD means little to nothing on a subwoofer amp //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

 

mclerico83

CarAudio.com Veteran
Oct 13, 2009
7,837
100
tampa
THD means little to nothing on a subwoofer amp //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif
um not even going to reply, since u like all the distortion and dirty power of audiopipe lmfao, u must like to kill subs. dumb"***"

distortion is the number one killer of subs

THD = Total Harmonic Distortion

a5hc=zed=quality=american quality amp

audiopipe=cheap=distortion=chinease crap

 

mclerico83

CarAudio.com Veteran
Oct 13, 2009
7,837
100
tampa
oh if u want to furthe rknow, most amps are bellow 1 percent thd, which means all amps are inaudiable to the ear u moron. just now u can put up the gains with cleaner signals which equals happy speakers.

 

Boomsday

CarAudio.com Veteran
Apr 1, 2010
4,001
24
My House
um not even going to reply, since u like all the distortion and dirty power of audiopipe lmfao, u must like to kill subs. dumb"***"
distortion is the number one killer of subs

THD = Total Harmonic Distortion

a5hc=zed=quality=american quality amp

audiopipe=cheap=distortion=chinease crap
nope never killed a one..

do the research before you start making yourself looking like a fool //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif Are you dumb or do you enjoy ballsacks that much?? Also I think you where not going to reply because you have no idea what you are talking about... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

for a Class D amplifier you will not be able to tell the difference from

 

Boomsday

CarAudio.com Veteran
Apr 1, 2010
4,001
24
My House
oh if u want to furthe rknow, most amps are bellow 1 percent thd, which means all amps are inaudiable to the ear u moron. just now u can put up the gains with cleaner signals which equals happy speakers.
So your agreeing with what i stated that THD has little to do with a Class D amp, u sir are an idiot

 

mclerico83

CarAudio.com Veteran
Oct 13, 2009
7,837
100
tampa
yes that u cant hear it up to 1 percent, but ur ******* sub can and you kill subs with distortion you ******* moron, thats why u see so many blown subs, because people ******* crank their gains all the way up and bass boost and bam you have massive distortion from there **** audiopipe amps, yes they put out power but with massive distortion

ur dense dumb mind who spits out bs on this forum has no idea what ur talking about, im not talking about hearing it, im talking about the health of ur sub.

 

mclerico83

CarAudio.com Veteran
Oct 13, 2009
7,837
100
tampa
um not even going to reply, since u like all the distortion and dirty power of audiopipe lmfao, u must like to kill subs. dumb"***"

distortion is the number one killer of subs

 

mclerico83

CarAudio.com Veteran
Oct 13, 2009
7,837
100
tampa
class d has nothing to do with distortion also, all class d is the production of power with square sine waves, on off binary switches were ab is a push pull of current and has a full sine wave.

 

gunz4me2

Bat Country
10+ year member
Aug 12, 2009
1,666
33
Louisiana
um not even going to reply, since u like all the distortion and dirty power of audiopipe lmfao, u must like to kill subs. dumb"***"
distortion is the number one killer of subs
Actually, overpowering is the number one killer of subs. If you disagree with that statement, please feel free to explain exactly how distortion kills a subwoofer if said distortion is produced within the thermal/mechanical power handling limits of the subwoofer.

 

mclerico83

CarAudio.com Veteran
Oct 13, 2009
7,837
100
tampa
not overpowering a sub, its called overheating the sub.

here is how this works, when you take an amp, and try and pull more power out of the amp than its capable of, you will end up creating whats called a clipped signal. At this point the power that is being driven into the speaker is going to contain a large amount of distorion.

The thing that drives the woofers is your coil, and typically its a copper coil, and with distortion it heats the coils up very quickly,

as metals heat they expand, and the coils are driven in a very close gap inside the magnents. As the wire used to wrap the coils heats up, they close that gap, if heated enough they will short to the motor, and cause the coils to short.

kind of like if you took a small thin piece of wire and put it between the positive and negative terminals of a battery. The wire heats up and if you generate enough current it will blacken the wire and melt it.

the heated coils will either burn themselfs upon contact with the motor, or will tear them to shreads. creating "coil rub" meaning when you push the cone in you hear a scratching sound from the cone.

the biggest problem that blows subs are not watts, but distortion. the moment you introduce distortion, will be the moment you blow the sub.

Distortion blows speakers. Simple as that. So when you have an amp that is turned all the way up or a vehicle with low voltage than in turn this will cause heat and distortion and blow speakers. The enclosure has alot to do with it as well. When the voltage drops while banging away on your subs the amp produces distortion which will blow subwoofers. Remember ohms law and watts law.

Again.. What creates the heat? Distortion. obviously over extending and abuse will damage speakers as well. But your still forgetting about the amp. The amp plays a major role here. An amplifiers out put changes as the speaker moves just like the impedence of a speaker does. When there are voltage drops on an amplifer the amplifier produces dc current which in turn heats the speaker then the speaker will be damaged (thermal). An amplifiers output is ac current. When an amp clips or voltage drops excessively the amplifire will clip and produce dc voltage.No one in car audio just lets a speaker play w/o an enclosure. And the frequency response of most speakers is alot lower than 500hz. And what would that prove any ways? (subwoofer reproduce bass not midbass) The reason why a speaker would reach its mechanical limit with out an enclosure is because the is no back pressure(a subwoofer is made to be enclosed). Just remember distortion creates heat and heat creates blown speakers. Heat expands and inturn blows vc's.

Electrical Engineering at USF has done me good. working on my masters now guys.

 

gunz4me2

Bat Country
10+ year member
Aug 12, 2009
1,666
33
Louisiana
By nature of its design, a loudspeaker is the largest waster of power by converting it to heat, undistorted or distorted.

Also what percentage of distortion must an amplifier reach in order to produce enough heat or DC voltage to cook a woofer? I ask because in my short history of owning an oscilloscope, 12v power supply, dummy loads, and a Fluke 117, I can't recall any torture test where a slight amount of clipping caused ANY amplifier tested on my bench to output a significant amount of DC that would ruin a driver. I guess I will check again with the Orion HCCA 225 Digital Reference that I am in the process of repairing, but I am not expecting the results to be any different. Come to think of it, maybe I need to add a distortion analyzer to my toy collection. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Then again, maybe I am giving too many individuals the benefit of the doubt by assuming that they know better than to overdrive the bejesus out of their amplifier while pushing nearly 40% distortion to their speakers.

Lastly, if an amplifier produces 1% distortion, like my Clarion DPX1851 is claiming to do on paper, and that higher distortion number kills subwoofers, why isn't my subwoofer dead?

Disclaimer: I am not an electrical engineer in real life nor do I pretend to be one on the internet. I am just a hobbyist/enthusiast who has more money than sense and the longing to learn as much as I can about whatever hobby of the moment I am involved in!

 
Last edited by a moderator:

VWBobby

PG and SS nuthugger
Jul 22, 2010
1,392
36
West coast
If you want a decent amp that can do a little more than rated power for ~$200, the MB Quart DSC1500.1D or ONX1500.1D. The Sundown or AudioQue 1200-watt amps are also good, and the prices are a little higher.

Clipping causes DC voltage which can overheat the subwoofer coils. SOME subwoofers are rated on RMS Music power, which is dynamic AC power. This is not to be confused with "nominal" or average power.... I'm talking about ratings that are on AC voltage. If the subwoofer is being operated with clean AC power, the cone travel will be linear and precise. This helps cool the coil by moving it in fresh air and working the cooling ports on the motor of the sub (if equipped). If you power a sub with DC voltage of the same amount, you may reach excursion (depending on voltage/amperage) with no reciprocal motion. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif The subwoofer is a liner electric motor of sorts...If you hold it in 1 place with a DC voltage, even a low one, you will have to waste heat somehow. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If you are below the thermal limits of the coil, you will be fine, above these limits obviously you'll have a burned coil. That's why you can do a clean "burp" with a high RMS AC signal (test tone) and not blow a sub. If you did the same test with a DC signal, same voltage/amperage, you would blow it well past the xmax or even thermal limits of the sub. This will demonstrate the difference between a damaging DC signal compared to a high powered, but clean, AC signal.

 

tinmanchris217

9mm xmax = 25mm xmech
10+ year member
May 15, 2009
355
0
Houston, TX
@ Mclerico

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/graduate.gif.d982460be9f153bb54e5d4cb744f6ae8.gif Go Bulls. I'm on CA.com instead of working on my Mech. E. thesis @ University of Houston

Your explanation is correct for the most part, but I'll clarify the designation between distortion and clipping.

Distortion is when unwanted harmonics appear. If you play a 100 Hz tone, and the amplifier may leak out a 200 Hz overtone. THD is a measure of how much junk gets added between the input and output.

Clipping is when the sine wave gets flattened, when the amplifier cant supply enough rail voltage. The flat top becomes a square wave, as clipping increases.

The same way a Fourier series can recreate a square wave using sine waves (the fundamental frequency plus the added overtones) ... so does the amplifier. You keep sending more power (area under the curve), but alot of this power is lost to heat, since the overtones are counteracting the fundamental cone movement. In the same way a sub will act when you wire dual voice coils opposingly. More input power without added cooling (convection). This is where the added heat comes from.

Summary:

Woofer death is usually due to overheating. Overheating is usually due to distortion created during clipping. Clipping is preventable... so don't be a dummy.

PS - I'm one of those poor souls who use Audiopipe amps. Ironically enough, I've abused them for a couple years of competition and World Finals. Now I'm using them in my SQ setup. When gains are set properly, 99% of class D amps will have indistinguishable SQ for sub-bass. Subwoofer distortion is not noticeable in modest quantities (

 
OP
A

AndyWood7

Member
Sep 21, 2010
67
0
Kalamazoo, MI
haha. thanks for the input everybody.

Summary:

Woofer death is usually due to overheating. Overheating is usually due to distortion created during clipping. Clipping is preventable... so don't be a dummy.
very good sir.

 

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